# Plede of Allegiance is Unconstitutional? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 26, 2002, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plede-of-allegiance-is-unconstitutional/116083 "2002-06-26T18:45:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Danalan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/76d3ee/32.png) [@Danalan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danalan)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2002, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plede-of-allegiance-is-unconstitutional/116083/41 "2002-06-27T16:45:55Z")
MSNBC is reporting that the ruling is likely to be overturned – and that SCOTUS just approved public funding for religious schools. Once again, I ask: How did I end up in this sad, ignorant, alternate universe? ---
**Author:** ![Gorgon\_Heap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f475e1/32.png) [@Gorgon\_Heap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorgon_Heap)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2002, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plede-of-allegiance-is-unconstitutional/116083/42 "2002-06-27T17:02:36Z")
I agree with **pldennison**. The reliance of the American people on the legislature making decisions for them is, in my estimation, a prime reason for the population’s lazy attitude and high crime rate. Family values and belief in particular religions are not things we need to make laws for. Leave these things at home where they belong. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2002, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plede-of-allegiance-is-unconstitutional/116083/43 "2002-06-27T17:44:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pldennison \* > Uh, Hemlock, the “under God” bit was added to the Pledge in freakin’ **1954**. That’s hardly “the past”; it’s within the lifetimes of a large proportion of Dopers. Technically…1954 would be the past.😃 Based on Judge Goodwin’s statement: “A profession that we are a nation ‘under God’ is identical, for Establishment Clause purposes, to a profession that we are a nation ‘under Jesus,’ a nation ‘under Vishnu,’ a nation ‘under Zeus,’ or a nation ‘under no god,’ because none of these professions can be neutral with respect to religion,” I can see a valid point for taking the phrase out of the pledge. We are supposed to be a free society with a distinct separation between church and state. There is no reason to keep the phrase in there just so a bunch of conservative bible-thumpers can pat themselves on the back that they picked the right religeon. I think what I find disturbing that the only reason given to overturn the lower courts ruling is that it is “nuts” or “stupid”. I would think that our lawmakers could come up with a more articulate argument than that. ---
**Author:** ![grendel72](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/91b2a8/32.png) [@grendel72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grendel72)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2002, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plede-of-allegiance-is-unconstitutional/116083/44 "2002-06-27T20:04:01Z")
I would like to apologise for all of the years I thought Red Skelton was a terribly unfunny, creepy old man. He was obviously a comic genius to have come up with such a dead on parody of the type of mindless glurge rightwingers like to spew at any given opportunity. …What do you mean he wasn’t joking? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2002, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plede-of-allegiance-is-unconstitutional/116083/45 "2002-06-28T12:04:06Z")
Once some damage control committee gets done with making the PoA non-offensive to all who could possibly give a crap, that part will become: “One nation, under the auspices of one’s preconceived omnipotent divinity of Christian, Jewish, or Muslim origins, or one’s all-encompassing macro- and/or micro-philosophical ideal, or one’s tribal ancestors, or one’s mythological-yet-cultural-defining deity, or one’s antiestablishment/rebellious/diabolical symbolic macro- and/or microcosm, with liberty and justice for all.” ---
**Author:** ![grendel72](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/91b2a8/32.png) [@grendel72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grendel72)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2002, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plede-of-allegiance-is-unconstitutional/116083/46 "2002-06-28T12:11:39Z")
**Knowed Out** , what exactly is wrong with the original pledge? I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Who exactly is excluded by that one? ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2002, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plede-of-allegiance-is-unconstitutional/116083/47 "2002-06-28T13:24:50Z")
I think kids should recite Bart Simpson’s version of the pledge: “Hey, America, you’re so fine – you’re so fine you blow my mind! America!!” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tof](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@The\_Tof](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tof)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2002, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plede-of-allegiance-is-unconstitutional/116083/48 "2002-06-28T15:01:29Z")
I have a friend who clerks for a judge on the 9th circuit… I’m gonna pump her for some inside info, but I haven’t had a chance to talk to her yet. (She is pretty dang busy most of the time.) One of the judges this morning has basically reversed himself, so while the ruling still stands, it looks like it may go before the whole lot of judges in the 9th CCOA and not just the three who made that decision. (My friend was not involved in this at all-- but I suspect her opinion would be similar to the current decision.) I agree with whoever said it previously. Hopefully if this is overturned its not because the Senate things its, “stupid.” The least they can do is come up with good and valid reasons why it is so. I don’t know that any other 9th Circuit would have done thsi though, you gotta give it to those judges. They had to know that this would cause a big stir and decided it was time to shake up the country a bit. I’ll let ya know if I get any inside info I can share. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2002, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plede-of-allegiance-is-unconstitutional/116083/49 "2002-06-28T20:44:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eve \* > _Yikes_, jackelope, I justy read the first response and curled up in a fetal position: > > “I cannot understand why people choose to think there is no GOD. . . . GOD is just and forgiving, but these people who want to try his patience will eventually destroy all mankind. I fail to see how these people cannot realize when prayer was taken out of our schools is when America began its downfall. I believe prayer is the only artillery we have to protect ourselves against such ignorant people.” _[edited down considerably]_ Just remember… _These people **vote!** _ :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plede-of-allegiance-is-unconstitutional/116083.md?page=2)