# Plot Holes in World War II **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 22, 2012, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-in-world-war-ii/616463 "2012-03-22T02:30:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-in-world-war-ii/616463/261 "2012-04-04T16:37:43Z")
I see WWII as more of an epic bloody Marx Brothers film, with the Keystone Cops thrown in. ---
**Author:** ![Gedd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gedd/32/4938_2.png) [@Gedd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gedd)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-in-world-war-ii/616463/262 "2012-04-04T16:46:00Z")
> [@straight\_man](#): > > Competent writer, my ass. They let him help write the Italian part of World War One, and look at what a plotless, depressing, pointless snafu _that_ became. I will never figure out how they managed to convince the producers to greenlight a sequel! I think I just realized why there is such a wide spectrum in the quality of the various plots, stories, and writing styles. There were a huge number of writers! (I should have known). They must have employed a large number of authors and let them each have a small part to write. They got a large amount of material, and then could pick and choose the parts they wanted. It’s obvious in hindsight. Some stories are comedies (see the previously mentioned Polish bear); some are dramas, some suspense, some action, etc. There are hundreds of characters, settings, and plots; most of which don’t connect. They simply say it’s a “global” (more so than WWI) conflict to explain it away. Brilliant! ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-in-world-war-ii/616463/263 "2012-04-04T16:53:44Z")
Well, I liked the series, all in all. It was actually pretty compelling at times. But there really are just waaaay too many cliches, coincidences and hackneyed bits. So America goes from the _Maine_ to the _Lusitania_ to the _Arizona_? Enough with the dramatic ship losses pissing the public off enough to bring the U.S. into a war, OK? So the Hitler dude has one of the best paratrooper forces in the world and he blows it all in capturing a single island? Please. The Japanese and Germans were just too unbelievably evil. Beheading prisoners, working them to death, and encouraging civilians on Pacific islands to jump to their own deaths rather than be captured? Or building concentration camps and killing Jews on an industrial scale even though it hurt your war effort? Please. And why wouldn’t the Allies have bombed the rail lines leading to the concentration camps? C’mon, it’d be win-win! Then the top German scientists go off to work for the Americans at the end. The top rocket guy, who probably knew about Nazi slave labor, even builds the spacecraft for the handsome PT-boat naval hero’s Moon program 20 years later! Yeah, sure. And that wheelchair President guy is elected FOUR times?!?!?!? Yeah, like that’s gonna happen. Germany and Japan go from planned-economy military dictatorships who are the Americans’ mortal enemies, to healthy market-economy democracies and trusted allies in, what, less than a decade? Yeesh. Some disbelief just can’t be suspended, guys. > [@RealityChuck](#): > > And, of course, the leader of the blond Aryan race had dark hair. Why would anyone follow him if he didn’t match the image? Heh. One of my buddies joked, “For all that Nazi genetics crap, it seems to me most of the German actors are as blond as Hitler, as tall as Goebbels, and as thin as Goering!” > [@silenus](#): > > Did they actually think people would buy _boarding parties_ in the 20th Century? The very idea that a modern naval commander would order “Away all boarders!” is insane. _USS Pillsbury_? Nice product placement, guys. Real subtle. And then to have the leader of the _Pillsbury_ boarding party die of a heart attack before he could get his Medal of Honor? And for the captured sub to end up in CHICAGO, of all places? Sheesh. Gimme a break. > **[Albert David](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_David)** > > Albert Leroy David (July 18, 1902 – September 17, 1945) was an officer in the United States Navy during World War II and a recipient of two Navy Crosses as well as the Medal of Honor. He was awarded the Medal of Honor for his role in helping to capture the German submarine U-505, off the coast of French West Africa in June 1944. > Born in Maryville, Missouri, David enlisted in the Navy at Kansas City, Missouri, on September 30, 1919. After undergoing his training at the Naval Training Station, Sa... > **[German submarine U-505](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U-505)** > > U-505 is a German Type IXC submarine built for Germany's Kriegsmarine during World War II. She was captured by the United States Navy on 4 June 1944 and survives as a museum ship in Chicago. > In her unlucky career, she had the distinction of being the "most heavily damaged U-boat to successfully return to port" in World War II, suffering six botched patrols, and becoming the only submarine in which a commanding officer killed himself in combat conditions. On 4 June 1944, she was captured by Un... > [@Levolor\_the\_Blind](#): > > …Anyway, I remember reading some spin-off novels back in the seventies (the titles escape me). One was about an invisible American destroyer and the other about Germans going to the moon. Sci-fi, obviously, and very cheesey. Were these ever canon?.. Oh, man, there’s been a lot of fanfic about this, if you look hard enough at garage sales and used-book stores. Writers seem especially drawn to the bad guys, for some reason, but none of it’s canon, of course. Still, some of my favorites: > **[Fatherland (novel)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatherland_(novel))** > > Fatherland is a 1992 alternative history detective novel by English writer and journalist Robert Harris. Set in a world where the Axis won World War II, the story's protagonist—Xavier March—is an officer of the Kripo, the criminal police, who is investigating the murder of a Nazi government official who participated at the Wannsee Conference. A plot is thus discovered to eliminate all of those who attended the conference, to help improve German relations with the United States. > The novel subv... > **[SS-GB](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS-GB)** > > SS-GB is an alternative history novel by Len Deighton, set in a United Kingdom conquered and occupied by Germany during the Second World War. The novel's title refers to the branch of the Nazi SS that controls Britain. It was first published in 1978. > SS-GB is set less than a year after the British surrender following a successful Operation Sea Lion. In 1940, the Germans landed near Ashford, and Canterbury was declared an open city. The German advance captured London, but a British rear guard ... > **[Eye of the Needle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_of_the_needle)** > > Eye of the needle or eye of a needle is the tunnel-like space near one end of a sewing needle. > Eye of the Needle also may refer to: > **[The Eagle Has Landed](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Eagle_Has_Landed)** > > The Eagle Has Landed may refer to: > [@Malden\_Capell](#): > > I thought it was pretty tiresome during the London Blitz episode that the Germans miraculously never hit St. Paul’s Cathedral, a big effing target in the middle of London and apparently a symbol of eventual victory for the Brits, despite dozens of opportunities. Surely they’d be able to zero in eventually? > > Such a trope. I know! And to have the King and the Queen refuse to leave the bombing zone? C’mon, man, you gotta protect your head of state! No way would the Brits let them stay in danger like that, esp. with two cute little princesses in the picture. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-in-world-war-ii/616463/264 "2012-04-10T00:40:22Z")
Ok now I found evidence that George Lucas can time travel. Remember how he put Boba Fett in Episode IV when he was not originally there? I watched the fine BBC documentary on the making of WWI and darn it if they did not add the best villains of WWII in the prequel. In the episode dealing with the battle of Verdun the Germans began to use tactics that finally worked against the trenches, special advance troops were trained to use new portable mortars, flame throwers, to zig zag among the trenches and not just go over the top and walk in line, the name the Germans gave to those specially trained soldiers that almost took Verdun like in a blitz? Stormtroopers … Really George, who are you kidding? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-in-world-war-ii/616463/265 "2012-04-10T00:56:41Z")
And just like Woody Allen in _Zellig_, they inserted the actor who played Hitler into some of the old _WWI_ trench scenes, and in the sequel _Street Fighters of Weimar_. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-in-world-war-ii/616463/266 "2014-02-10T15:10:42Z")
And France? Everyone knows France is a pushover, but expecting us to believe that Germany just took them out of the game that quickly? I can see they tried to repair the plot hole by including the French “Resistance,” but you can’t have it both ways, writers! ---
**Author:** ![nevadaexile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb8c5e/32.png) [@nevadaexile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nevadaexile)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-in-world-war-ii/616463/267 "2014-02-10T19:08:23Z")
Some thoughts: **SUPER MAJOR PLOT HOLE** A nation, which disenfranchises a sizable portion of its own population by token of the fact that they are of a certain race, which isolates citizens in camps based solely upon the fact that they are of a certain ancestry and which generally treats its non-White citizens very shabbily, manages to frame the conflict as one of “good vs. evil.” Note: This nation is supposed to be the “good guy.” **SUPER MAJOR PLOT HOLE** A nation which has a larger army, air force and a navy which isn’t restricted by geography and that gets a SIX MONTH head start to prevent its own invasion, drops the ball and surrenders after six weeks of fighting. Worse, it does so with 500k worth of soldiers still in the southern part of its country and 600 aircraft which are completely undamaged. Worse yet, it makes it NO EFFORT to evacuate these soldiers and those airplanes to its nearby Northern African colonies to continue the war from there even it has means to do so. **Completely unbelievable** : The majority of its naval fleet is never captured by the enemy and could have been to blockade, harass and otherwise take the fight to the nation which conquered their homeland…and yet does not even attempt this. This nation then has the temerity to complain when that naval fleet is severely damaged by an ally who grows tired of waiting for it to “sack up” and start fighting the war. **SUPER MAJOR PLOT HOLE** An island nation, which has few natural resources and which starts a war against a large nation never creates a viable anti-submarine warfare program even after it’s made abundantly clear that its enemy is going to starve it out using unrestricted submarine warfare. **Bonus points** :This same nation squanders its naval advantage on a useless series of engagements which it has no possible hope of winning. **Minor Plot Hole** Despite receiving significant military and economic aid which helps him win his own country’s civil war prior to WWII, a national leader later stymies those same nations which helped achieve that victory. So much so in fact that those allies are forced to fight conflicts on their southern flanks which sap resources which could have been used elsewhere. **Bonus points** : Although this same leader espouses many of the same political,social and racial views as the enemy nations which are defeated goes on to reign over his country ruthlessly for 30 years after the end of the war. And is later declared to be an ally by nations which despised and fought so determinedly against nations which held his views. If you wrote this and tried to sell it, no one would believe it. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-in-world-war-ii/616463/268 "2014-02-10T19:56:13Z")
I just want to know how that loathsome sequel _The Korean War_ lasted three seasons. And don’t even get me started on TKW’s “Gritty Reboot” _The Vietnam War_. That was even more unbelievable! The sheeple who watched that show for so long should be ashamed. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-in-world-war-ii/616463/269 "2014-02-10T20:09:05Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > And don’t even get me started on TKW’s “Gritty Reboot” _The Vietnam War_. That was even more unbelievable! The sheeple who watched that show for so long should be ashamed. And what kind of ending was that, anyway? Sheesh. ---
**Author:** ![Boulter\_s\_Canary](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e79b87/32.png) [@Boulter\_s\_Canary](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boulter_s_Canary)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-in-world-war-ii/616463/270 "2014-02-11T23:29:41Z")
> [@Gedd](#): > > [And what’s with that character who fought with a bow, arrows, and broadsword?](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Churchill) Seriously? They might as well have had another using a phaser! And that scene with the destroyer [attacking a heavy cruiser?](http://www.thewarillustrated.info/213/now-it-can-be-told-last-glorious-fight-of-the-glowworm.asp) Implausible enough but then doing it again [with an under-armed converted liner](http://arnish.islandblogging.co.uk/2008/01/19/hms-rawalpindi/) going up against \*two of them \*was completely over the top. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2014, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-in-world-war-ii/616463/271 "2014-12-01T09:16:37Z")
Could someone explain the point of having Africa and the Middle East in the series at all? It seemed to me to be a way to shamelessly pander to South Asian audiences, having their ethnicity characters involved. East African campaign? Syria? At least in the original, there was actual good fighting there. And they did creat the storyboard for WW3 and even made a few test shots. Starring Jon Voight. It was called “_The Day After_”. ---
**Author:** ![BOOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c4cdca/32.png) [@BOOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BOOM)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2014, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-in-world-war-ii/616463/272 "2014-12-01T10:14:29Z")
Yep, agree on the invasion of the Soviet Union - like, what can we do to make sure we’re properly surrounded … duh. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2014, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-in-world-war-ii/616463/273 "2014-12-01T15:20:55Z")
> [@nevadaexile](#): > > … **Minor Plot Hole** > > Despite receiving significant military and economic aid which helps him win his own country’s civil war prior to WWII, a national leader later stymies those same nations which helped achieve that victory. So much so in fact that those allies are forced to fight conflicts on their southern flanks which sap resources which could have been used elsewhere. > > **Bonus points** : Although this same leader espouses many of the same political,social and racial views as the enemy nations which are defeated goes on to reign over his country ruthlessly for 30 years after the end of the war. And is later declared to be an ally by nations which despised and fought so determinedly against nations which held his views… Was this that Franco dude? Yeah, he was annoying. I wonder if he stayed dead? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2014, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-in-world-war-ii/616463/274 "2014-12-01T15:26:05Z")
Actually, according to the Cold War miniseries and the novelisation, he remained around for another 30 years, and became allied to the US. His handpicked successor was the grandson of deposed King…and he later turned Spain into a constitutional monarchy with democracy and everything. You cannot get more ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-in-world-war-ii/616463/275 "2018-05-08T18:10:28Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > They slipped the odd one in, though. [This](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panjandrum) giant rocket-propelled wheel-bomb made a brief appearance in an episode or two, but it really belonged in a [TV comedy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Round_and_Round_Went_the_Great_Big_Wheel). 😃 This is a bit of a bump, but I’ve been reading some of the novelizations, and there’s way more wacky hardware than I thought. When they were planning that big amphibious invasion of Europe, they needed a way to get tanks to shore. They had one with a snorkel, but that wouldn’t do for the ocean. So this guy, he’s kind of a cross between Q and Heath Robinson, comes up with a tank with collapsible skirts that can float to shore. Okay, the tank can turn into a boat. Fine. But it doesn’t end there! He comes up with this [whole series](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobart's_Funnies) of ‘funny’ tanks. There’s one with a flamethrower. There’s one with a mortar. There’s one with a great thumping roller out front that explodes mines before anything vulnerable can be hurt by them. But then it starts to get silly. There’s one that can lay roads. There’s one that can build bridges. There’s one that fills in trenches with a big bundle of sticks. There’s one with a plough to dig up mines. There’s one that turns itself into a bridge. There’s one that presses explosives against a barrier. I’m surprised there wasn’t one that could fly. Or join up with others to make a super-tank… ---
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-in-world-war-ii/616463/276 "2018-05-08T19:21:07Z")
I don’t know. It makes more sense if WW2 is a homage to _Game of Thrones_. Hitler could be the insane Cersi character. Churchill could be Jon Snow , Stalin could be Tyrion and Roosevelt could be Daenerys. “Lightning is coming.” ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-in-world-war-ii/616463/277 "2018-05-08T23:59:32Z")
I couldn’t really get into the “Eastern Front” subplot because after a while it just got too depressing: two sides trying to see who could out-evil the other, and the absolute obliteration of anyone who could be called a “good guy”. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-in-world-war-ii/616463/278 "2018-05-09T00:16:45Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > This is a bit of a bump, but I’ve been reading some of the novelizations, and there’s way more wacky hardware than I thought. Thanks – the “Funnies” were worth the bump. But even more, I loved re-reading this thread. The OP was right, WW2 made no sense on many levels. Now can someone review “The Trump Years” and point out the plot holes (and the over-the-top characterizations)? Thanks in advance. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-in-world-war-ii/616463/279 "2018-05-09T08:53:42Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > Okay, the tank can turn into a boat. Fine. But it doesn’t end there! He comes up with this [whole series](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobart's_Funnies) of ‘funny’ tanks. I suspect it’s for the toy sales. No worse than what the Axis FX team came up with for planes. I mean, theirs were only ever pre-production sketches, but [whooo-boy](http://www.luft46.com/). ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-in-world-war-ii/616463/280 "2018-05-09T11:48:08Z")
> [@digs](#): > > Thanks – the “Funnies” were worth the bump. But even more, I loved re-reading this thread. The OP was right, WW2 made no sense on many levels. Now can someone review “The Trump Years” and point out the plot holes (and the over-the-top characterizations)? Thanks in advance. Kinda done: [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=830878](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=830878) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-in-world-war-ii/616463.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-in-world-war-ii/616463.md?page=15)