# Plot Holes that Aren't (Iron Man 2 spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 6, 2014, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-arent-iron-man-2-spoilers/685472 "2014-04-06T14:46:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-arent-iron-man-2-spoilers/685472/21 "2014-04-08T16:17:08Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > Not only that, but he had to put the poster back like that every night while he was working on his tunnel in case some guard shone a flashlight into the cell. So he probably had the bottom weighted or some such. > > As for the virus in Independence Day, that never really bothered me. The whole point was that the aliens were unbelievably arrogant and never had dealt with effective resistance. So it’s not hard to believe in a culture that never developed any kind of computer security. So if we’d been studying their technology in Area 51, it’s not too hard to believe that scientists had developed a primer on their operating systems. It’s a bit time-compressed, yes, but not wholly unrealistic. A couple of seconds of dialog could have sold it better, I admit. So instead we have to believe that the aliens never updated their operating system in the ~50 years they’ve had the fighter. Of course, they never updated the fighter either… ---
**Author:** ![tullsterx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tullsterx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tullsterx)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-arent-iron-man-2-spoilers/685472/22 "2014-04-08T18:05:22Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > I just always hated the way the screw looked into DuFresne’s cell. I know it was meant to make us think he’d committed suicide but his facial expression makes no sense in the context of what he’s seeing. What are you talking about? Who’s “the screw?” ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-arent-iron-man-2-spoilers/685472/23 "2014-04-08T18:08:55Z")
> [@tullsterx](#): > > What are you talking about? Who’s “the screw?” I think he mean the guard. The “Dufresne, you better be sick or dead!” guy. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-arent-iron-man-2-spoilers/685472/24 "2014-04-08T18:17:36Z")
> [@tullsterx](#): > > What are you talking about? Who’s “the screw?” The guard. [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/RQSmfzfg2MY/hqdefault.jpg?sqp=-oaymwEmCOADEOgC8quKqQMa8AEB-AHwBIAC6AKKAgwIABABGGMgZShNMA8=&rs=AOn4CLBiZ8S42VccKFErdFzM2jsfFwEaMQ "The Shawshank Redemption - Escape Andy Dufrense") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQSmfzfg2MY&t=0m44s) I think it’s the healthy fear he was of the warden and the captain. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-arent-iron-man-2-spoilers/685472/25 "2014-04-08T18:29:01Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > So instead we have to believe that the aliens never updated their operating system in the ~50 years they’ve had the fighter. Of course, they never updated the fighter either… They’re not creative, they travel from system to system destroying as they go. It hasn’t been established that their whole species is invading Earth, it’s likely they’ve spread out across the whole region of space. It makes sense that they would either not update their systems or make any upgrades backwards compatible in case they run into their own people after a multi year separation. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-arent-iron-man-2-spoilers/685472/26 "2014-04-08T18:33:10Z")
> [@tullsterx](#): > > What are you talking about? Who’s “the screw?” > [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > I think he mean the guard. > [@drastic\_quench](#): > > The guard. [Definition 5.](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/screw) > [@D\_Odds](#): > > So instead we have to believe that the aliens never updated their operating system in the ~50 years they’ve had the fighter. Of course, they never updated the fighter either… I always imagine the guys who cruise up behind our heroes looking over their Roswell relic and arguing, “Damn, man, I think that’s a '48.” “No way, dumbass. That’s a '47. Look at the taillights.” ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-arent-iron-man-2-spoilers/685472/27 "2014-04-08T19:49:50Z")
> [@Bill\_Door](#): > > They’re not creative, they travel from system to system destroying as they go. It hasn’t been established that their whole species is invading Earth, it’s likely they’ve spread out across the whole region of space. It makes sense that they would either not update their systems or make any upgrades backwards compatible in case they run into their own people after a multi year separation. Unless they are so brilliant they got it right the first time, if they never updated they never would have made it to earth. They’d be stuck in interstellar space with a major system crash. Maintenance programming, which I’ve done, is hardly creative. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-arent-iron-man-2-spoilers/685472/28 "2014-04-08T20:39:50Z")
> [@Bill\_Door](#): > > They’re not creative, they travel from system to system destroying as they go. It hasn’t been established that their whole species is invading Earth, it’s likely they’ve spread out across the whole region of space. It makes sense that they would either not update their systems or make any upgrades backwards compatible in case they run into their own people after a multi year separation. This is actually the plot of the upcoming sequel. The group Earth fought in Independence Day was the invasion squad. The full fleet travels 20 years behind. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-arent-iron-man-2-spoilers/685472/29 "2014-04-08T20:49:29Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > This is actually the plot of the upcoming sequel. The group Earth fought in Independence Day was the invasion squad. The full fleet travels 20 years behind. Driving home from watching _Independence Day_ in the theater, my friend already knew the title and tagline of the sequel: **Groundhog Day** _Looks like six more weeks of nuclear winter._ ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-arent-iron-man-2-spoilers/685472/30 "2014-04-08T20:49:52Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > This is actually the plot of the upcoming sequel. The group Earth fought in Independence Day was the invasion squad. The full fleet travels 20 years behind. I always hoped ID2014 (My idea for title) was “This time we’re taking the fight to them” ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-arent-iron-man-2-spoilers/685472/31 "2014-04-08T21:09:15Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > As for _Iron Man 2_, I thought it was pretty clear than Vanko was surprised to find Stark in the car. But then, that film was so rushed and poorly written it was often difficult to figure out what the hell was going on. Like, how Howard Stark would know that his son would need to synthesize a new element in order to replace the palladium (though the building a cyclotron scene in his basement was pure brilliance). Agreed that it’s not clear in the film, generally considered the weakest of the current Marvel cinematic universe, but as I gathered, I think the ARC reactor technology was either invented or began development under Howard Stark. What I’ve filled between the lines is that we see Howard Stark get the Tessaract at the end of the first Captain America film, so along with exploring that and the Hyrda weapons developed using it, that’s how he got so far ahead of where we are today technologically. Perhaps in trying to replicate the power source of the Tessaract, they observed that element but were unable to replicate it but could more or less substitute palladium to serve the purpose. Howard wouldn’t have known that Tony would need it to keep himself alive, but he likely would have assumed that Tony would continue his work and eventually perfect the ARC reactor technology. After all, we learn in Avengers that he was “the only name in clean energy” and it was also powerful enough to power the Tesseract portal machine, so it seems to me that it’s all connected. In fact, that’s one of the things I think Marvel has done a marvelously clever and subtle job of, putting ties between all the films such that either tie up little loose ends or just give little nods to the fans who are trying to connect it all together. In fact, without any spoilers, there’s some cool tie backs in the newest Captain America film that even add a little bit to some of the weaker points of their phase one films. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-arent-iron-man-2-spoilers/685472/32 "2014-04-08T21:50:01Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > So instead we have to believe that the aliens never updated their operating system in the ~50 years they’ve had the fighter. Of course, they never updated the fighter either… It depends upon how “mature” their technology is. It may not be like PC & Apple that put out a new or marginally upgraded OS every few years. The ID4 aliens, being sufficiently advanced enough for interstellar travel, could’ve hit on workable OS/software a few centuries ago and left it alone. Is there any indication that they have a free-market consumer-driven economy, with masses of alien citizens demanding the latest/greatest/gee-whiz technothingamabob every few years, necessitating periodic “updates?” Or even driving innovation? Or did they plateau technologically? It’s amazing how we puny humans bring our humanocentric reasoning and motivations to the theaters and cry out, “Rubbish!” when movie aliens don’t behave like humans, or in any way they way we think they should. I blame Gene Roddenberry. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-arent-iron-man-2-spoilers/685472/33 "2014-04-08T21:51:48Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > **Groundhog Day** > _Looks like six more weeks of nuclear winter._ **Labor Day** _Looks like we’ll need to put in a little overtime on this one…_ ---
**Author:** ![Silophant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a698b9/32.png) [@Silophant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silophant)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-arent-iron-man-2-spoilers/685472/34 "2014-04-08T22:06:10Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > Agreed that it’s not clear in the film, generally considered the weakest of the current Marvel cinematic universe, but as I gathered, I think the ARC reactor technology was either invented or began development under Howard Stark. What I’ve filled between the lines is that we see Howard Stark get the Tessaract at the end of the first Captain America film, so along with exploring that and the Hyrda weapons developed using it, that’s how he got so far ahead of where we are today technologically. Perhaps in trying to replicate the power source of the Tessaract, they observed that element but were unable to replicate it but could more or less substitute palladium to serve the purpose. Howard wouldn’t have known that Tony would need it to keep himself alive, but he likely would have assumed that Tony would continue his work and eventually perfect the ARC reactor technology. After all, we learn in Avengers that he was “the only name in clean energy” and it was also powerful enough to power the Tesseract portal machine, so it seems to me that it’s all connected. Yep. It mentions in the first Iron Man that the main Stark Industries campus is powered by a large arc reactor, but it isn’t actually cost effective and is kept going more as PR than anything. Howard invented the arc reactor, (likely based on the Tessaract, as you say) but Tony was the one to miniaturize it, and presumably, make it cost-effective. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-arent-iron-man-2-spoilers/685472/35 "2014-04-08T22:10:02Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Unless they are so brilliant they got it right the first time, if they never updated they never would have made it to earth. They’d be stuck in interstellar space with a major system crash. > Maintenance programming, which I’ve done, is hardly creative. Or it took them a thousand updates to get it perfect, but that last update was made back when humans were just figuring out about fire. Or the entire fleet goes into cryosleep between invasions, with a couple waking up for scouting missions of likely targets, but with no real science or industry being accomplished during the hibernation. Or the fleet moves fast enough for relativistic effects to kick in, so while humans have had fifty years to study the wreck, from the aliens POV, it was launched last week. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-arent-iron-man-2-spoilers/685472/36 "2014-04-08T22:14:55Z")
Although, I really have to wonder how the arc reactor at Stark Industries could fail to be cost-effective. It can’t be the energy needed to keep it running, because it’s producing that and more itself. The initial installation might have been expensive, but that wouldn’t explain it being uneconomical to _keep_ it running once it was in place. The fuel is presumably hydrogen, which is cheap, and we never see Tony having to refuel any of his own devices, so that can’t be it. What other operating expenses does it have? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-arent-iron-man-2-spoilers/685472/37 "2014-04-08T22:20:36Z")
This is more of a plot misunderstanding, but you’d be surprised how many people wondered why Indiana Jones was not immortal in Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. “Hey, he drank from the grail! That makes him unkillable forever, right?” :sigh: ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-arent-iron-man-2-spoilers/685472/38 "2014-04-08T22:31:12Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Although, I really have to wonder how the arc reactor at Stark Industries could fail to be cost-effective. It can’t be the energy needed to keep it running, because it’s producing that and more itself. The initial installation might have been expensive, but that wouldn’t explain it being uneconomical to _keep_ it running once it was in place. The fuel is presumably hydrogen, which is cheap, and we never see Tony having to refuel any of his own devices, so that can’t be it. What other operating expenses does it have? “Uneconomic” isn’t the same as “unprofitable.” If an arc generator produces the same amount of profit as a coal plant, but costs a thousand times as much to build, the arc reactor is going to be viewed as a poor investment, even if it is profitable in the long run. Also, the decision about the economics of the reactor were made before Tony grew a conscience, so environmental concerns probably didn’t factor into the decision not to build more, except from a pure marketing stand point. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-arent-iron-man-2-spoilers/685472/39 "2014-04-09T13:06:58Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > Re: Independence Day…besides, it’s an homage. Right. To clarify, the computer “virus” in _Independence Day_ specifically parallels the microbes that kill the Martians invaders in _The War of the Worlds_. In both cases, the invincible aliens are defeated by the “lowest form of life.” Well, I meant viruses, but equating computer hackers with “the lowest form of life” is interesting. Re: the hackability of the alien system. The invaders are a hive mind. Would a hive mind even _conceive_ of anti-virus protection? Who hacks his own computer? > [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Plus, Dr. Okun mentioned that a ton of modern day technology was derived from the alien spaceship. Including Macs. Did he really? I’ll have to rewatch. > [@Miller](#): > > Or the fleet moves fast enough for relativistic effects to kick in, so while humans have had fifty years to study the wreck, from the aliens POV, it was launched last week. I like that idea! > [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > I always hoped ID2014 (My idea for title) was “This time we’re taking the fight to them” Does _Ender’s Game_ count? ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-arent-iron-man-2-spoilers/685472/40 "2014-04-09T13:34:43Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > Did he really? I’ll have to rewatch. I think he’s confusing this with MIB > [@Sailboat](#): > > I like that idea! same here > [@Sailboat](#): > > Does _Ender’s Game_ count? That would actually make Ender’s game better I think - of course, their are bits about Ender’s Game that don’t fit (alien’s leaving when they realize we’re sentient, etc) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-arent-iron-man-2-spoilers/685472.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-arent-iron-man-2-spoilers/685472.md?page=3)