# Plot holes that ruin movies **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 15, 2009, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-ruin-movies/521304 "2009-12-15T03:01:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-ruin-movies/521304/81 "2009-12-16T22:59:44Z")
**Intergalactic Gladiator** said: > [@](#): > > Indiana Jones and his magnetic gunpowder. You mean “Indiana Jones and the Death of the Franchise”? **zamboniracer** said: > [@](#): > > My favorite one is that assuming nutrinos superheated the earth’s core, wouldn’t they have cooked the earth’s surface - and all us on it - first, since the nutrinos would pass through the surface to get to the core? But see, the neutrinos race through the atmosphere, which is exposed to space and thus cools easily, but accummulate in the core, which has all that dirt piled on top to trap the heat. 😉 **RealityChuck** said: > [@](#): > > As for an actual plot hole, how about **Alien** , when no one considered just opening the doors and giving the alien a taste of explosive decompression? A good plot would have made it clear that this wasn’t an option. **Alien** pretended that no one would notice. You mean like Ripley actually did at the end? I don’t recall specifically how it was addressed, but I kinda gathered that the ship is rather huge and lots of rooms and alcoves and crannies in which said Alien to grab on to something before being vented to space, and add to it that they didn’t know if it was an air-breather, plus I imagine it would have been prohibitively expensive to carry a full refill supply of air for that vessel, so venting the entire ship would have required all of them to immediately enter hypersleep - if that would have even worked without oxygen. As I recall, the plan was to drive it to the airlock or capture it in a net and carry it to an airlock, where said venting could occur without jeopardizing the rest of the crew or the ship. **typoink** said: > [@](#): > > Alien doesn’t stand up too great to close examination. A friend of mine loves to compare the plot of that movie to a tiger getting loose aboard a modern submarine and _almost winning_. What if the tiger had one of the crew sabotaging the efforts of the others? And the crew was only 6 people instead of the complement of a military sub (30? 50? 200?). The plot of Alien works because of the vast size of the ship the crew are unable to quickly and systemically clear it, and because they don’t know how fast the alien grows so are unprepared for the scale of attacks. They underestimate it the whole way. That, and can’t seem to understand 3-D space (hey, let’s build a locational scaller with a 2-D plot, then go through a 3-D maze. That’ll work.) **The New and Improved Superman** said: > [@](#): > > Sooooooo…if E.T. is capable of levitating himself (and others) MILES above the Earth’s surface, why then didn’t he just levitate himself up to the spaceship that was a mere ten feet in the air in the first scene? Because the door was closed? 😉 The real reason was that it hadn’t been established that ET could fly at that point, so he couldn’t. Cartoon physics at work. **lissener** said: > [@](#): > > For me, as a botany geek, what bristled me about Batman Begins was that stupid blue flower. He was in the Himalayas, right? Well the most famous blue flower in the world, at least to botany geeks, is from the Himalayas. Ladies and gentleman I give you the holy grail of gardening, the Meconopsis. But no, they had to make up an imaginary flower. Now I’d swallow that if it took place in the desert or the tropics or the tundra, but it took place in Meconopsis’s back frikkin yard! Do a LITTLE homework, OK? Just a little. They were going to use meconopsis, but he wanted too much and after getting Christian Bale and Liam Neeson, they didn’t have enough budget. 😉 **ReticulatingSplines** said: > [@](#): > > But what I want to know is, if you can go back to ANY point in time, why not go back several days before that, when SOREN WAS WALKING AROUND ON THE ENTERPRISE and you could just grab him and throw him in the brig? This is a big problem with time travel movies in general. You have a working time machine and can go any place and time in history, so you get in a time crunch because you are working to a deadline - in another century. NO, you’re not (usually) limited to operate as if real time here is real time there. Unless there’s something explicit about the time travel mechanism that limits you, this shouldn’t be a problem. This was nicely highlighted in “Bill and Ted’s Excellent Adventure”. They figure out even though they are somehow constrained to simultaneous time (an hour of their life corresponds to an hour of San Dimas time), they are not limited to actions that occur during that 1 hour, but can plan actions to do after they complete the mission and aren’t on a deadline, as long as those actions have verifiable results to their current situation. Such as stealing keys from a week ago and hiding them where they can find them now and use them. Or putting a trash can in just the right place to fall on Dad’s head. I love that movie. It’s cheesy, but fun. **melodyharmonius** said: > [@](#): > > So now, because he can’t keep his johnson in his pants, I’m supposed to feel sorry for him and root for him as he seeks to bring the firm down? You’re supposed to feel sorry for him because the Firm really is evil and he wants to do something about it. But yeah, he made the decision to cheat on his wife, regardless of the situation in which he was presented, so that was his fault. **pancakes3** said: > [@](#): > > Empire strikes back. Luke was training for like… what… the better part of an afternoon before taking off towards bespin to catch up with Han and Leah? That’s one of those timeline compressions that are hard to follow. I think it was supposed to have take some time - weeks - for Luke to be training, while Han and Leia were traveling at normal speed to Bespin in space. We just don’t get stuck watching the boring parts. What bugged me was from Empire to Jedi. Luke leaves Degobah early (“you must complete with your training”) to go save Han, and fails. Then spends years working on the plan to save Han. When he finally returns to Degobah, Yoda tells him he doesn’t need any more training, he just needs to face Vader. So, was all that self-training sufficient? Or was Yoda just handwaving because he was dying, so what was the point? ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-ruin-movies/521304/82 "2009-12-16T23:18:58Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > Only one that comes to mind at the moment is what I can remember of **The Truth About Cats and Dogs** - friends wanted to see it and my husband and I loathed it from early on, so it’s possible I’m repressing some of it. Janeane Garofalo (plays “the ugly one because I have glasses”) and Uma Thurman (playing “dumb hot blonde”) get caught up in a romantic triangle situation, while Uma’s dating an IIRC kind of abusive or at least very mean guy. > > Like anyone cares about it enough for me to put a spoiler, but anyway… Janeane’s character gets The Guy. Uma’s character? No idea, her plotline is dropped. We don’t hear whether she gets away from Jerk or anything. Maybe that’s a “bummer” element and they didn’t want to spoil the cute romantic end or something. I saw the movie in the theater and haven’t seen it since so my memory may not be totally accurate, but it’s my recollection that Uma and the jerk break up pretty early in the movie. Either way, abandoning a subplot isn’t actually a plot _hole_. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-ruin-movies/521304/83 "2009-12-17T01:16:42Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > **Intergalactic Gladiator** said: > > What bugged me was from Empire to Jedi. Luke leaves Degobah early (“you must complete with your training”) to go save Han, and fails. Then spends years working on the plan to save Han. Years? I doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![GreedySmurf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a698b9/32.png) [@GreedySmurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreedySmurf)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-ruin-movies/521304/84 "2009-12-17T01:19:21Z")
I don’t know if this counts as a plot hole necessarily, but I despise the set up for Alien 3. The whole impetus for the movie is based upon there suddenly somehow being two Alien eggs on the Sulaco. :mad: Which was totally out of touch with the events at the end of Aliens. #1 - The Queen had detached herself from her eggsack, so it doesn’t appear she has any ability to lay any new eggs up there. #2 - Everything from the previous two movies indicates the eggs only open when there is a lifeform nearby - every human on board the Sulaco was in Hypersleep when these eggs open. #3 - The only place the eggs could possibly have been is in the cargo hold/loading bay. The facehuggers are than able to somehow make their way to the hypersleep chambers #4 - It presumes that Ripley was stupid enough not to do a sweep of the ship around the area the Queen had been, just in case. ---
**Author:** ![Just1Lurk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c0e974/32.png) [@Just1Lurk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just1Lurk)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-ruin-movies/521304/85 "2009-12-17T01:38:05Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by **GreedySmurf:** > I don’t know if this counts as a plot hole necessarily, but I despise the set up for Alien 3. > > The whole impetus for the movie is based upon there suddenly somehow being two Alien eggs on the Sulaco. Which was totally out of touch with the events at the end of Aliens. > > #1 - The Queen had detached herself from her eggsack, so it doesn’t appear she has any ability to lay any new eggs up there. > > #2 - Everything from the previous two movies indicates the eggs only open when there is a lifeform nearby - every human on board the Sulaco was in Hypersleep when these eggs open. > > #3 - The only place the eggs could possibly have been is in the cargo hold/loading bay. The facehuggers are than able to somehow make their way to the hypersleep chambers > > #4 - It presumes that Ripley was stupid enough not to do a sweep of the ship around the area the Queen had been, just in case. This, especially #4. I’ve heard several fanwanks to get the eggs on the ship, but no way does careful, competent, by-the-book Ellen “Don’t Break Quarantine” Ripley go into hypersleep without sweeping the ship. In fact, she’d probably jettison the lander, sterilize every square inch of the landing bay, then set up booby traps and motion detectors, \*then \* program the hypersleep chamber to wake her up in a couple months so she can have a look around - just in case. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-ruin-movies/521304/86 "2009-12-21T20:34:21Z")
**RikWriter** said: > [@](#): > > Years? I doubt it. Okay, I checked Wookieepedia, and it places the timeline as 3 years from SW to Empire, followed by 1 year to Jedi. That fits with what my original experience seemed to suggest. However, it took three years to make the movie (1980 to 1983). I read somewhere that at the moment I can’t dredge up from my memory that stated that the events in StarWars space were _supposed_ to be taking the same time as reality, so it there were 3 years between the events of Empire and Jedi. Again, I can’t tell you where I read this, but that’s why I got the impression Luke had years of self meditation and training to perfect his skills before returning to Degobah to “complete his training”. But hey, it only took him ~1 year, and then suddenly he doesn’t have any more training to complete. Sure, makes as much sense as ever. ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-ruin-movies/521304/87 "2009-12-21T21:06:04Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > **RikWriter** said: > > Okay, I checked Wookieepedia, and it places the timeline as 3 years from SW to Empire, followed by 1 year to Jedi. That fits with what my original experience seemed to suggest. > > However, it took three years to make the movie (1980 to 1983). I read somewhere that at the moment I can’t dredge up from my memory that stated that the events in StarWars space were _supposed_ to be taking the same time as reality, so it there were 3 years between the events of Empire and Jedi. > > Again, I can’t tell you where I read this, but that’s why I got the impression Luke had years of self meditation and training to perfect his skills before returning to Degobah to “complete his training”. > > But hey, it only took him ~1 year, and then suddenly he doesn’t have any more training to complete. Sure, makes as much sense as ever. The book (and everything else, it was a mutlimedia experiment or whatever they called it) Shadows of the Empire took place in the time between ESB and ROTJ and it said somewhere that it was aproximately 3 years. There was one point where everything comes together for Luke, he finally “gets it” about the Force. I thought it was a pretty well written part of an otherwise adequate book. 3 years still seems like a long time for Boba Fett to get Solo to Jabba the Hutt, though. ---
**Author:** ![Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troy_mcclure_sf/32/4150_2.png) [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-ruin-movies/521304/88 "2009-12-21T21:21:02Z")
Just what the hell did Dennis Quaid expect to do once he got to Jake Gyllenhaal in the NYPL besides be another goddamn mouth to feed? ---
**Author:** ![Dahu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dahu/32/3416_2.png) [@Dahu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dahu)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-ruin-movies/521304/89 "2009-12-21T22:01:00Z")
I’m surprise no-one’s yet mentioned The Matrix. Wasn’t the whole premise just ridiculous, I mean batteries and all that. Or maybe it’s just me… ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-ruin-movies/521304/90 "2009-12-21T22:36:18Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > No, no. The WORST part about Contact … is that after she “fell right through” the machine … they’re basically like, “Kill the project.” Worse than Arroway not having the presence of mind to ask “okay, but _how much_ static was on the recorder?” Even my little _Beakman’s World_-educated understanding of science came up with that question way sooner than they brought it up in the movie. ---
**Author:** ![drpepper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8baadc/32.png) [@drpepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drpepper)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2009, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-ruin-movies/521304/91 "2009-12-22T03:05:27Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > sweet jeebus what year is it? i clicked on tvtropes and blacked out. _Golf claps politely_ Bravo, sir. Bravo. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2009, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-ruin-movies/521304/92 "2009-12-22T23:55:17Z")
> [@GreedySmurf](#): > > I don’t know if this counts as a plot hole necessarily, but I despise the set up for Alien 3. > > The whole impetus for the movie is based upon there suddenly somehow being two Alien eggs on the Sulaco. :mad: Which was totally out of touch with the events at the end of Aliens. > > #1 - The Queen had detached herself from her eggsack, so it doesn’t appear she has any ability to lay any new eggs up there. > > #2 - Everything from the previous two movies indicates the eggs only open when there is a lifeform nearby - every human on board the Sulaco was in Hypersleep when these eggs open. > > #3 - The only place the eggs could possibly have been is in the cargo hold/loading bay. The facehuggers are than able to somehow make their way to the hypersleep chambers > > #4 - It presumes that Ripley was stupid enough not to do a sweep of the ship around the area the Queen had been, just in case. Bishop ferried them up in Aliens. He tells the survivors that flight time for the second drop ship is 40 minutes. But we watched the other drop ship in real time and it took four minutes. That was with a human pilot and a load of humans on board. But it takes Bishop the android ten times as long to pilot an empty one? I don’t think so. And look at Bishop’s expression of dismayed surprise when Ripley, Newt and Hicks take a shortcut to the landing field and show up early. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2009, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-ruin-movies/521304/93 "2009-12-23T02:21:10Z")
> [@Dahu](#): > > I’m surprise no-one’s yet mentioned The Matrix. Wasn’t the whole premise just ridiculous, I mean batteries and all that. Or maybe it’s just me… You can chalk that up to executive meddling. The original, slightly less implausible, idea was that the machines were using the human brains as some sort of biocomputer network. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2009, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-ruin-movies/521304/94 "2009-12-23T02:27:52Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > You can chalk that up to executive meddling. The original, slightly less implausible, idea was that the machines were using the human brains as some sort of biocomputer network. Sounds like something [Deep Thought](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minor_characters_from_The_Hitchhiker%27s_Guide_to_the_Galaxy#Deep_Thought) came up with. > [@](#): > > The Earth itself turns out to be a gigantic supercomputer “with organic life itself forming part of its operational matrix” ---
**Author:** ![jrepka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee59a6/32.png) [@jrepka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jrepka)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2009, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-ruin-movies/521304/95 "2009-12-23T03:43:13Z")
In 2012 there are lots of implausibilities but they are easily dismissed by the cool effects. But c’mon, how many times can Emmerich blow up LA/NY/DC. When is some movie going to destroy St. Louis or Indianapolis? The biggest incongruity in the movie was, of course, when the scientist went to the politician to tell him that the world was about to come to an end – _and the politician believed him!_ ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2009, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-ruin-movies/521304/96 "2009-12-23T03:49:49Z")
> [@jrepka](#): > > The biggest incongruity in the movie was, of course, when the scientist went to the politician to tell him that the world was about to come to an end – _and the politician believed him!_ That actually blew my mind! I was expecting him to be ignored until it was too late. ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2009, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-ruin-movies/521304/97 "2009-12-23T05:35:44Z")
> [@The New and Improved Superman](#): > > Some people have the most filthy minds. And some people have the most filthy… > > Anyway, to get back to the original thread, I’ll throw out the same example I always through out when this subject comes up - **E.T.** > > In the first few minutes of the film, a spaceship lands and lots of adorable li’l aliens get out and trot around among the redwoods. But then, the Big Bad gum’mint guys show up, and prevent the titular E.T. from getting back to the ship before it takes off. E.T. runs away from the gum’mint guys and gets back to the landing point only to see the ship flying away, already ten feet over his head, so close and yet apparently so far away. > > Later on in the movie, E.T. not once but twice telekinetically flies himself, Elliot (on his bike) and - in the second instance - most of the kids from the neighborhood on their bikes miles above the ground. > > Sooooooo…if E.T. is capable of levitating himself (and others) MILES above the Earth’s surface, why then didn’t he just levitate himself up to the spaceship that was a mere ten feet in the air in the first scene? I actually have a fanwank for this one. E.T.'s telekinesis couldn’t happen just one a whim. It needs some kind of energy source he could change to make things float. Small things he could do from the motion of the air around him, but moving bigger things, like himself, needed a larger source of energy. When E.T. floats all of the boys on their bikes, the boys are pedaling like crazy. E.T. is using the kinetic energy from that pedaling and converting it to them fly. When the ship left him behind, there was nothing he could convert for lifting power. There you go, a completely out of left field fanwank, which probably doesn’t hold up, but it works for me. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2009, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-ruin-movies/521304/98 "2009-12-23T13:45:22Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Empire strikes back. Luke was training for like… what… the better part of an afternoon before taking off towards bespin to catch up with Han and Leah? > > That’s one of those timeline compressions that are hard to follow. I think it was supposed to have take some time - weeks - for Luke to be training, while Han and Leia were traveling at normal speed to Bespin in space. We just don’t get stuck watching the boring parts. Now I’m picturing Mark Hamill with a beard, doing the full Stallone-in-ROCKY-IV training montage. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2009, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-ruin-movies/521304/99 "2009-12-23T17:28:47Z")
The dark knight ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2009, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-ruin-movies/521304/100 "2009-12-23T18:15:46Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > Worse than Arroway not having the presence of mind to ask “okay, but _how much_ static was on the recorder?” > > Even my little _Beakman’s World_-educated understanding of science came up with that question way sooner than they brought it up in the movie. There is a whole list of questions an astronomer could ask: Does the signal exhibit Vega’s Doppler shift? Proper motion? Radial motion? Did anyone try to triangulate on the so-called fake signal to see how close it really is? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-ruin-movies/521304.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-ruin-movies/521304.md?page=6)