# Plot holes that ruin movies **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 15, 2009, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-ruin-movies/521304 "2009-12-15T03:01:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2009, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-ruin-movies/521304/101 "2009-12-23T18:22:15Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > The dark knight What plot hole was in Dark Knight? No, the microwave weapon doesn’t count as a plot hole. ---
**Author:** ![Shawn1767](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shawn1767](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shawn1767)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2009, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-ruin-movies/521304/102 "2009-12-23T18:26:42Z")
As far as E.T.'s flying ability is concerned, maybe he just needed to absorb enough of the radiation from our yellow sun in order to get the ability to fly. And the book “Contact,” did a lot better dealing with the trip than the movie did and had a much more satisfying ending. I think they dumbed it down a lot for a mass movie audience. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2009, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-ruin-movies/521304/103 "2009-12-23T18:32:33Z")
That the machine and trip were real was beyond dispute in the book, but that removes an opportunity for drama. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2009, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-ruin-movies/521304/104 "2009-12-23T18:36:32Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > There is a whole list of questions an astronomer could ask: > > Does the signal exhibit Vega’s Doppler shift? Proper motion? Radial motion? Did anyone try to triangulate on the so-called fake signal to see how close it really is? I’m pretty sure they show them doing at least some of those tests. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2009, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-ruin-movies/521304/105 "2009-12-23T18:41:32Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > I’m pretty sure they show them doing at least some of those tests. To confirm the signal after it’s found, but were they brought up in the hearing as proof that the signal didn’t originate from Earth orbit like that creep Skerritt suggested? ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2009, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-ruin-movies/521304/106 "2009-12-23T18:52:43Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > To confirm the signal after it’s found, but were they brought up in the hearing as proof that the signal didn’t originate from Earth orbit like that creep Skerritt suggested? Ah, I see your point. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2009, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-ruin-movies/521304/107 "2009-12-23T18:55:45Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > In regards to Indiana Jones on the submarine, the script originally called for a scene of Jones lashing himself to the periscope with his whip and riding the sub to the island that way. It’s important to remember that the _Indiana Jones_ series is imitative of 1930s adventure serials, warts and all. “There’s no way he’ll survive that!” _blink_ “Survive what?” It’s a hallmark of the cock-a-doodie genre. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2009, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-ruin-movies/521304/108 "2009-12-23T22:25:11Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > What plot hole was in Dark Knight? No, the microwave weapon doesn’t count as a plot hole. microwave weapon is batman begins. dark knight bothered me by… -the joker in the beginning just “blending in” with a crowd of school buses after backing into the front of a bank, with the cops passing right by no less. - how fast the Joker rose to power, especially given his penchant for killing all his associates and aversion to money. - how perfectly efficient the jokers’ henchmen were. - how inept/corrupt the police department was. ---
**Author:** ![GreedySmurf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a698b9/32.png) [@GreedySmurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreedySmurf)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2009, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-ruin-movies/521304/109 "2009-12-23T22:47:34Z")
> [@DWMarch](#): > > Bishop ferried them up in Aliens. > > He tells the survivors that flight time for the second drop ship is 40 minutes. But we watched the other drop ship in real time and it took four minutes. That was with a human pilot and a load of humans on board. But it takes Bishop the android ten times as long to pilot an empty one? I don’t think so. And look at Bishop’s expression of dismayed surprise when Ripley, Newt and Hicks take a shortcut to the landing field and show up early. The board seems to have eaten my original response. But this ‘explanation’ is just not possible. Problem #1 - where does Bishop get two Alien eggs from? There are none in the station proper - only two facehuggers which are used by Burke. So Bishop needs to go into the Atmosphere Processer, has to walk into the Queens Egg Chamber, pick up two eggs and walk back out. Really? As to the timing - The timeframe that Bishop gives to Ripley to bring the back up dropship down is this: 40 mins - to crawl out to the uplink tower (180m crawling through a small pipe) 1 hour - to patch in to the uplink and align the dish 30 mins - to prep the backup dropship 50 mins - flight time > [@DWMarch](#): > > But we watched the other drop ship in real time and it took four minutes. Sorry, but that sequence is a long way from ‘real time’. The monitors in the APC where the Leftenant is able to see what the marines are seeing each have a timer in the bottom which reflects a ‘mission elapsed’ time stamp. First view of this is when Drake is asked to check his camera, elapsed time 22 minutes. We unfortunately don’t know when the timer is started, but I wouldn’t presume too long prior to boarding the APC. When Hudson gives his ‘kick-ass’ speech to Ripley time elapsed is 25 minutes - so we’ve used 3 minutes just in that timeframe (a long way from 4 minutes for the entire drop) The clincher is the next time you can get a view of the elapsed time is right after the Marines enter Hadley’s Hope, where the mission elapsed times is 1 hour 3 minutes! So total flight time is over 50 minutes. So presuming a Drop ship without the weight of an APC can make it in Bishop’s estimate of 50 minutes. So, presuming total flight time of 150 mintures (Sulaco to the station, back up to the Sulaco ‘with the eggs’, and back down to the ground to collect Ripley & Co) that means based upon Bishop’s estimate he now has exactly 30 minutes to achieve all of the following: - Crawl 180 metres to the uplink tower - patch in, align the dish, prep the dropship Dropship flys down to the planet - Fly over to the Atmosphere Processer, - walk in to the Queens chamber and take two eggs Fly back up to the Sulaco - secret the eggs in the ship somewhere Fly back down to Hadley’s Hope Done!! Also keep in mind that Ripley is a qualified and competent navigator, if any of those time estimates Bishop gives was way out of whack I would expect Ripley to know. I’m sorry but that particular fanwank about how it happened is complete and utter crap. ---
**Author:** ![GreedySmurf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a698b9/32.png) [@GreedySmurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreedySmurf)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2009, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-ruin-movies/521304/110 "2009-12-23T22:51:36Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > To confirm the signal after it’s found, but were they brought up in the hearing as proof that the signal didn’t originate from Earth orbit like that creep Skerritt suggested? I think the message was dumbed down so much by the movie producers to make sure everyone got it, and the message was “the bad government people are performing a cover up”, don’t confuse it further with how the government would need to cover up all of this other evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2009, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-ruin-movies/521304/111 "2009-12-23T23:36:55Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > Empire strikes back. Luke was training for like… what… the better part of an afternoon before taking off towards bespin to catch up with Han and Leah? Han and Leia have to get to Bespin on a ship without a functioning hyperdrive. That leaves Luke on Dagobah long enough for the Falcon to fly to a different solar system at sublight speeds. Depending on how far Bespin is from Hoth, that gives Luke a solid two or three centuries to work on his Jedi training. So, no plot hole there! (Actually, the official fanwank is that the Falcon has a backup hyperdrive that’s very slow, so the journey to Bespin takes several weeks to a couple of months.) As for his training suddenly being complete when he comes back in _Jedi_, I always figured that the additional training was to condition him to fight Vader without a) dying or b) turning to the Dark Side. As it turned out, the training wasn’t necessary, but what with the entire fate of the Jedi order being on Luke’s shoulders, I can appreciate why Yoda would want to keep him around to make absolutely sure he was ready. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2009, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-ruin-movies/521304/112 "2009-12-24T10:07:31Z")
> [@GreedySmurf](#): > > Problem #1 - where does Bishop get two Alien eggs from? There are none in the station proper - only two facehuggers which are used by Burke. So Bishop needs to go into the Atmosphere Processer, has to walk into the Queens Egg Chamber, pick up two eggs and walk back out. Really? Really. There was a landing pad right outside the door. To get to the eggs you take the elevator downstairs and turn left IIRC. The eggs were right there. It would also explain why the queen ripped Bishop in half. She recognized him as the egg thief. > [@](#): > > Sorry, but that sequence is a long way from ‘real time’. So that whole thing about the “express elevator to Hell” should have been more like “leisurely stroll to Hell”? > [@](#): > > The monitors in the APC where the Leftenant is able to see what the marines are seeing each have a timer in the bottom which reflects a ‘mission elapsed’ time stamp. I refuse on principal to believe that in 1986 a production designer would be paying this much attention to minor elements like the timers on the HUD of the marines. I don’t recall anything in the dropship sequence that would suggest that a long portion of the journey was cut for time. > [@](#): > > Also keep in mind that Ripley is a qualified and competent navigator, if any of those time estimates Bishop gives was way out of whack I would expect Ripley to know. Ripley is 50 years out of date on this stuff and she was a civilian pilot, not military. How is she supposed to know where the Sulaco is actually parked or how fast the dropship can go? I would also argue that Ripley is not a competent navigator as every ship she’s ever been on has suffered some manner of catastrophe due to her mere presence! Nostromo- destroyed with all hands lost except her. Escape pod- floats in space for 50 years until it is recovered, great piloting there Ripley. Sulaco- gets infected by the aliens and ejects the remaining crew. Next escape pod crashes on a previously uninvolved planet and brings death to several people. Auriga- completely overrun by aliens and crashed right into Earth. The power loader was jettisoned into space and the APC had the transmission blown right off of it when Ripley attempted to drive it. Ripley may well be the worst pilot in the galaxy! Every vehicle she touches dies! ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2009, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-ruin-movies/521304/113 "2009-12-24T11:19:08Z")
> [@DWMarch](#): > > Really. There was a landing pad right outside the door. To get to the eggs you take the elevator downstairs and turn left IIRC. The eggs were right there. It would also explain why the queen ripped Bishop in half. She recognized him as the egg thief. Why would the guards and workers allow anything to walk out with the eggs? Remember those big horned mofos in the egg chamber. Those were the royal guards, their primary, probably sole, purpose was to protect the queen and the eggs. And yes, that was explicit in the original screenplay idea. > [@](#): > > So that whole thing about the “express elevator to Hell” should have been more like “leisurely stroll to Hell”? No, it’s an express elevator. IIRC it was supposed to be like 10 minutes of “freefall”, ie accelarating all the time, then breaking on the armopshere. The majority of the trip was travel time to the landing zone. The actual drop into the amosphere was indeed an express elevator to hell. Extremely fast, a long way down and the hull got immensely hot. > [@](#): > > I refuse on principal to believe that in 1986 a production designer would be paying this much attention to minor elements like the timers on the HUD oualf the marines. The digital readouts was one of the things that the production crew did pay a lot of attention to. Amongst other things the respiratory and heart rates really do reflect the amount of stress the chraracters were under, and the weapons readouts all tally with shots fired. So it’s not implausible that the timers were all carefully adjusted. There was a surprising amount of detail went into that movie. > [@](#): > > Ripley is 50 years out of date on this stuff… IIRC she was qualified that the time tht Burker propositioned her, since he noted that couldn’t get any better job than forklift driver, and he offered a new job as navigator. It is inconceivable that the character wouldn’t have re-taken the exams in the 12 months or so since she returned to Earth. > [@](#): > > ..and she was a civilian pilot, not military. How is she supposed to know where the Sulaco is actually parked or how fast the dropship can go? The Sulaco was in geosynchronous orbit IIRC, so that tells her exactly where it was. Any navigator would know at least approximatly how fast the dropship goes because: 1) She just took the same flight yesterday, fully loaded. So that gives an absolute maximum time and 2) a navigator would know how fast free fall takes form geosynchronous orbit, which gives an absolute minimum. There are physicists on this board who could tell you in minutes where the “Sulaco” was actually parked and how fast the dropship can go based on that information. > [@](#): > > I would also argue that Ripley is not a competent navigator as every ship she’s ever been on has suffered some manner of catastrophe due to her mere presence! 😃 OK, that’s a Jessica Fletcher thing. Nothing to do with her navigation abilities ---
**Author:** ![Snite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Snite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snite)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2009, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-ruin-movies/521304/114 "2009-12-24T15:01:15Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > Contact. They just pulled that second machine out of their ass. > > Empire strikes back. Luke was training for like… what… the better part of an afternoon before taking off towards bespin to catch up with Han and Leah? The Millenium Falcon’s Hyperdrive was inop which means they traveled to Bespin using only the ship’s thrusters which is how the Empire got there first and already had agents/troops spread throughout the city. It likely took a couple weeks to get there. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2009, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-ruin-movies/521304/115 "2009-12-24T19:06:41Z")
> [@Snite](#): > > The Millenium Falcon’ […] traveled to Bespin using only the ship’s thrusters […] It likely took a couple weeks to get there. …because stars in the _Star Wars_ universe are nearer to each other than planets are in the Sol system. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2009, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-ruin-movies/521304/116 "2009-12-24T22:53:28Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > What plot hole was in Dark Knight? No, the microwave weapon doesn’t count as a plot hole. What about the Joker jamming that pencil into the desk? I doubt a simple pencil would have the strength or penetrate a table like that 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Random\_Design](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/58f4c7/32.png) [@Random\_Design](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Random_Design)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2010, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-ruin-movies/521304/117 "2010-01-05T13:48:10Z")
[The Wild](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wild) - _the_ worst and most contrived CG kids film I’ve had the misfortune of having to sit through. The holes, fuck, where to start. The usual issue of carnivores and herbivores being buds. A lion meets some stray dogs and is thoroughly intimidated. Minutes later meets alligators in a sewer, no qualms. Herbicarnibuds steal a tugboat (hm) which happens to have enough fuel to cross the Atlantic. Run into a bunch of wildebeest who, ironically, are confronting a plot elephant in the room - they want to turn prey intro predators and change the food chain. At no point in the movie is any animal eating anything, so… wtf is this? This mish-mash of reality and beliefs-meant-to-be-suspended gets a bit much. Big fail. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2010, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-ruin-movies/521304/118 "2010-01-05T14:17:29Z")
The part where the animals spoke aloud in English didn’t give it away that it would be a bit unbelievable? ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2010, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-ruin-movies/521304/119 "2010-01-05T14:55:41Z")
> [@Larry\_Mudd](#): > > …because stars in the _Star Wars_ universe are nearer to each other than planets are in the Sol system. 🙂 That’s probably why they’re at war all the time. No elbow room. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2010, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-ruin-movies/521304/120 "2010-01-05T15:08:35Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > You can chalk that up to executive meddling. The original, slightly less implausible, idea was that the machines were using the human brains as some sort of biocomputer network. That is, indeed, much easier to swallow. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-ruin-movies/521304.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-holes-that-ruin-movies/521304.md?page=7)