# Plot to kidnap (MI Gov) Gretchen Whitmer **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 8, 2020, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-to-kidnap-mi-gov-gretchen-whitmer/922506 "2020-10-08T16:53:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2020, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-to-kidnap-mi-gov-gretchen-whitmer/922506/41 "2020-10-09T04:34:23Z")
> [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > Sounds like Sovereign Citizen nonsense. Exactly. Abducting people and putting them on trial is one of their standard fantasies. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2020, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-to-kidnap-mi-gov-gretchen-whitmer/922506/42 "2020-10-09T05:13:28Z")
How long until we see claims that the arrests were a political hit job timed to make Trump look bad? Oh, who am I kidding. I’m sure those claims are already out there. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2020, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-to-kidnap-mi-gov-gretchen-whitmer/922506/43 "2020-10-09T05:48:16Z")
I don’t condone this kidnapping plot. But, the famous quote comes to mind: “When government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.” ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2020, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-to-kidnap-mi-gov-gretchen-whitmer/922506/44 "2020-10-09T05:58:32Z")
> [@Mickyfinn](#): > > Five guys - one is “Kaleb”. Somehow I would have guessed that. Waiting to see what these guys look like. AHA! I think we finally know what the male equivalent of “Karen” is! ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2020, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-to-kidnap-mi-gov-gretchen-whitmer/922506/45 "2020-10-09T06:00:48Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > I don’t condone this kidnapping plot. But, the famous quote comes to mind: > > “When government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Yeah, we get what you are really saying. That was about as subtle as a bowling ball tossed through a window. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2020, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-to-kidnap-mi-gov-gretchen-whitmer/922506/46 "2020-10-09T06:03:07Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Yeah, we get what you are really saying. > That was about as subtle as a bowling ball tossed through a window Oh? Do tell: what am I “really” saying? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2020, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-to-kidnap-mi-gov-gretchen-whitmer/922506/47 "2020-10-09T06:14:53Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Oh wait, my mistake. yeah it is a bunch of bearded white guys. > **[View: Mugshots for all 14 people charged after FBI uncovered plot to kidnap...](https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/local/2020/10/08/view-mugshots-for-13-people-charged-after-fbi-uncovers-plot-to-kidnap-michigan-gov-whitmer/)** > > Federal and state officials have charged 14 people after uncovering a plot to kidnap Gov. Gretchen Whitmer and overthrow the Michigan government, FBI agents said. Number three reminds me of one of those old drawings of a face, where if you turn it upside down it’s another face. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2020, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-to-kidnap-mi-gov-gretchen-whitmer/922506/48 "2020-10-09T06:23:25Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Number three reminds me of one of those old drawings of a face, where if you turn it upside down it’s another face. Damnit, it didn’t work. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2020, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-to-kidnap-mi-gov-gretchen-whitmer/922506/49 "2020-10-09T06:24:51Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > Oh? Do tell: what am I “really” saying? Tyranny is bad. So I assume that you’re talking about the prominent government leader who has said quite overtly that he plans to attempt to subvert the democratic process, that he will not accept the results of the coming election if he’s voted out of office? Will we see you marching on Washington with a militia exercising their 2nd Amendment solution to oppose tyranny and throw him out of office? See you there! ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2020, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-to-kidnap-mi-gov-gretchen-whitmer/922506/50 "2020-10-09T06:32:25Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > “When government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.” Maybe the fear the government has should come from being voted out of office rather than being marched out at gunpoint. Because, when you think force is what you need to keep a government in line then you have just handed all power to the people with the most/biggest guns. That may seem great to you if you think it is your side that has the most/biggest guns but will you feel the same if you find someone else actually has the most/bigger guns and all of a sudden you find you have no power and are at the whim of someone pointing a gun at you? I am willing to bet you would HATE that and find it really, really unfair. Just saying… ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2020, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-to-kidnap-mi-gov-gretchen-whitmer/922506/51 "2020-10-09T06:46:33Z")
> “When government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.” Resounding, but empty, claptrap. It’s one thing if government fears the people’s decision in free, fair and peaceful elections. It’s quite another when self-appointed and entirely unaccountable “people” impose their own tyranny. Likewise, a lot of people’s liberty is guaranteed by government, through the rule of law, frightening those who would otherwise do them harm. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2020, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-to-kidnap-mi-gov-gretchen-whitmer/922506/52 "2020-10-09T06:57:49Z")
Please, do expand on your point. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2020, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-to-kidnap-mi-gov-gretchen-whitmer/922506/53 "2020-10-09T07:25:40Z")
Famous mostly for being made up, you mean… ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2020, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-to-kidnap-mi-gov-gretchen-whitmer/922506/54 "2020-10-09T07:34:35Z")
Said in 1914 by John Basil Barnhill, first case of it falsely being attributed to Thomas Jefferson in 1994. As one of our Presidents said- “” **The problem with internet quotes is that you can’t always depend on their accuracy**" ~Abraham Lincoln, 1864. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2020, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-to-kidnap-mi-gov-gretchen-whitmer/922506/55 "2020-10-09T07:36:46Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Said in 1914 by John Basil Barnhill Not verbatim, he had the order reversed. And hardly “famously” - it’s only the attribution to Jefferson that renders it “famous” - so much so that Monticello has a page up debunking it. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2020, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-to-kidnap-mi-gov-gretchen-whitmer/922506/56 "2020-10-09T07:54:22Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Said in 1914 by John Basil Barnhill And paraphrased by Alan Moore, in _V for Vendetta_: “People shouldn’t be afraid of their government. Governments should be afraid of their people.” ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2020, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-to-kidnap-mi-gov-gretchen-whitmer/922506/57 "2020-10-09T08:47:47Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > “When government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.” So, in your view, 13 guys kidnapping the Governor accurately represents the will of the Michigan people? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2020, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-to-kidnap-mi-gov-gretchen-whitmer/922506/58 "2020-10-09T10:43:56Z")
Some people are more “the people” than other people. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2020, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-to-kidnap-mi-gov-gretchen-whitmer/922506/59 "2020-10-09T11:28:51Z")
Shades of Australia 1932: [New Guard plan to kidnap Premier of New South Wales](https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/21974393) ---
**Author:** ![Mickyfinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e19b73/32.png) [@Mickyfinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickyfinn)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2020, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-to-kidnap-mi-gov-gretchen-whitmer/922506/60 "2020-10-09T12:13:56Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > white men. One of the other white men has a hitler moustache (or an unfortunate shadow) and the last white man is clean shaven. Yay for diversity. Cast from a bad production of “La Cage Aux Folles” by the Michigan Militia. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-to-kidnap-mi-gov-gretchen-whitmer/922506.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-to-kidnap-mi-gov-gretchen-whitmer/922506.md?page=4)