# Plot to kidnap (MI Gov) Gretchen Whitmer **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 8, 2020, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-to-kidnap-mi-gov-gretchen-whitmer/922506 "2020-10-08T16:53:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![glowacks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/glowacks/32/5548_2.png) [@glowacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glowacks)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2020, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-to-kidnap-mi-gov-gretchen-whitmer/922506/121 "2020-10-10T15:41:30Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Because context matters in communicating meaning I completely agree when you take the overall context of his message, that he is wrong. I’m saying that nothing individually that might be considered to have a truth value is wrong, and that he is only wrong when you consider all the contextual information. I totally agree that such context is far more important that the truth value of the individual things he said, but I maintain that he said what he did precisely because he could theoretically say to someone that he said nothing wrong, and if people got the wrong impression it was their fault, despite it being clear what he was trying to imply, because he literally only very heavily implied it, and did not say it directly. That’s the last I have to say on this. It seems people are fine with others being picky and pedantic over pointless things, but when it comes to something serious, that approach shouldn’t be tried, because people will get the wrong impression. I fail to understand that a lot, and it’s my fault because I’m not neurotypical. I’m definitely not trying to argue that he was justified in saying it at all, I was just pointing out he was technically right only in the worst possible way. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2020, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-to-kidnap-mi-gov-gretchen-whitmer/922506/122 "2020-10-10T15:42:04Z")
> [@glowacks](#): > > That’s the last I have to say on this. Perhaps it would have been better to refrain from saying the first thing on it. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2020, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-to-kidnap-mi-gov-gretchen-whitmer/922506/123 "2020-10-10T15:45:33Z")
It sounds like you’re saying he deliberately stated things that were technically true so that he could have plausible deniability when criticized. Do I have that right? ---
**Author:** ![glowacks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/glowacks/32/5548_2.png) [@glowacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glowacks)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2020, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-to-kidnap-mi-gov-gretchen-whitmer/922506/124 "2020-10-10T15:45:50Z")
Exactly. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2020, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-to-kidnap-mi-gov-gretchen-whitmer/922506/125 "2020-10-10T15:46:21Z")
That would be “plausible” only for implausible values of the term plausible. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2020, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-to-kidnap-mi-gov-gretchen-whitmer/922506/126 "2020-10-10T15:46:33Z")
Two are aptly named “Null”. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2020, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-to-kidnap-mi-gov-gretchen-whitmer/922506/127 "2020-10-10T15:47:57Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > It sounds like you’re saying he deliberately stated things that were technically true so that he could have plausible deniability when criticized. Do I have that right? May I call you out in an unabashedly _positive_ way ? I have an _extremely_ cognitively rigid brother who I love very much. But he’s difficult to talk to. My (our) mother once suggested that I bring up the notion (with him) of (him) asking more questions. I do find there are people whose question mark key on their keyboard has never been touched. My beloved brother … doesn’t ask questions. He doesn’t need to; he already knows the answers 😉 Bravo for asking a question that sought to understand glowacks’ position. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2020, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-to-kidnap-mi-gov-gretchen-whitmer/922506/128 "2020-10-10T16:01:31Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > It sounds like you’re saying he deliberately stated things that were technically true so that he could have plausible deniability when criticized. > [@glowacks](#): > > Exactly. I disagree that the sheriff had that level of strategic ability. He was simply trying to justify their acts, period. He’s telling himself exactly what they were telling themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2020, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-to-kidnap-mi-gov-gretchen-whitmer/922506/129 "2020-10-10T17:02:38Z")
Preach it, brother. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2020, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-to-kidnap-mi-gov-gretchen-whitmer/922506/130 "2020-10-10T19:04:14Z")
20 anti-gov groups in NC seems high to me. But there might be some with only 10 or less members. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2020, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-to-kidnap-mi-gov-gretchen-whitmer/922506/131 "2020-10-10T19:59:55Z")
Larry Correia is now claiming (on FB) this was not a right wing militia group, but “lefty anarachists” (sic). ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2020, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-to-kidnap-mi-gov-gretchen-whitmer/922506/132 "2020-10-10T21:58:51Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > This was bound to happen in a state that allows stuff like this: > > “Heavily Armed Protesters Gather Again At Michigan Capitol To Decry Stay-At-Home Order” > > Democratic Gov. Gretchen Whitmer has been threatened online with violence by opponents who have organized another demonstration at the State Capitol on Thursday. > > Why these people weren’t gathered up and thrown in jail is still a mystery to me. What crime were they committing? They were just exercising their rights under the 1st and 2nd Amendments. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2020, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-to-kidnap-mi-gov-gretchen-whitmer/922506/133 "2020-10-10T22:46:05Z")
> [@Turki-lurki](#): > > They will probably be nominated for federal judgeships. And confirmed by Mitch’s Mafia Which is funny because this type of cretin generally believes the highest legitimate government office is county sheriff. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2020, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-to-kidnap-mi-gov-gretchen-whitmer/922506/134 "2020-10-10T22:54:14Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Exactly. Abducting people and putting them on trial is one of their standard fantasies. You know who else made extradjucial arrests and trials of people they didn’t like? No, no. Not him. 'Twere the communists of China and Vietnam. Oh, and the KKK. Well, that last didn’t actually have trials. They just had the executions. BTW, on another site I frequent, one extremist trumpeter (and, yes, I do feel that all trumpeters/magats are extremists because their hero, in fact, is) posted this: > “You, now, though, openly call for people to shoot others for disagreeing with your “vision”. Or maybe you don’t remember that, huh?” > Remember it? Of course I remember it. I still openly call for it. Anyone who supports T̶r̶u̶m̶p̶ ̶Biden is a n̶a̶z̶i̶ pedophile and it is OK to do anything to a n̶a̶z̶i̶ pedophile. > But more seriously, it is past time to start shooting BLM and Antifa terrorists as well as those providing material support. These people are not rational. They do not support one single thing in the constittution. They are, in fact, traitors. And, of course, they are filled with extremist bigotry against women, Blacks, and Muslims. Oh, yeah, and they have a non-factual, fantasy diatribe against “the left” aka “libs”. Again, they are not rational. Do not look for rationality there. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2020, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-to-kidnap-mi-gov-gretchen-whitmer/922506/135 "2020-10-11T02:43:54Z")
I saw this article today and thought it was pertinent. I haven’t gotten all the way through the article, but heres a synposis. > **[Trump support is less important than ethnic antagonism in explaining...](https://www.psypost.org/2020/10/trump-support-is-less-important-than-ethnic-antagonism-in-explaining-anti-democratic-views-among-republicans-58225)** > > New research provides evidence that ethnic antagonism has a substantial negative effect on Republicans' commitment to democracy. The study, published in and here is the article itself. [https://www.pnas.org/content/117/37/22752/](https://www.pnas.org/content/117/37/22752/) Essentially, the more racial resentment you feel, the more hostile to democracy you become according to that article. Makes sense and fits with what we’ve seen in American history (Jim Crow, the KKK, white nationalist militias, Trumpism, etc. > “There are two key findings. First, there is a lot of anti-democratic sentiment out there. For example, half of Republicans agree that ‘The traditional American way of life is disappearing so fast that we may have to use force to save it.’ Almost three-fourths agree that ‘It is hard to trust the results of elections when so many people will vote for anyone who offers a handout,'” Bartels told PsyPost. > > In addition, 41.3 percent agreed that “A time will come when patriotic Americans have to take the law into their own hands.” > > “Second, those attitudes are firmly grounded in what I call ‘ethnic antagonism’ — especially concerns that Blacks and immigrants and Latinos are too powerful and getting more than their fair share of government resources. Economic conservatism, cultural conservatism, partisanship, and even enthusiasm for President Trump are much less important in accounting for Republicans’ anti-democratic attitudes,” Bartels said. > > The survey items with the strongest link to anti-democratic views were not measures of attitudes toward Trump. Instead, items assessing whether participants agreed with sentiments such as “discrimination against whites is as big a problem today as discrimination against blacks and other minorities,” “things have changed so much that I often feel like a stranger in my own country,” immigrants get more than their fair share of government resources, and that people on welfare often have it better than those who work showed the highest average correlations with anti-democratic attitudes. > > The findings suggest that ethnic antagonism plays an important role in the erosion of support for democracy in the Republican Party. But it is unclear how many people who endorse taking the law into their own hands in theory would actually do so in practice. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2020, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-to-kidnap-mi-gov-gretchen-whitmer/922506/136 "2020-10-11T02:45:13Z")
This Sheriffs statements need to be brought out front and center as the clearest example why the position of elected Sheriffs need to be eliminated. A man with this flawed an understanding of the law has no business being anywhere near law enforcement and in a reasonable justice system would be fired immediately. But since it is an elected position with no accountability to anyone, there is not a lot that the AG can do. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2020, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-to-kidnap-mi-gov-gretchen-whitmer/922506/137 "2020-10-11T02:53:13Z")
I asked about him on twitter and was told he has his own posse and actively recruits for it. And he does. Seems to be something Michigan does but is now trying to regulate. > **[On Point: Michigan doesn't monitor civilians who look like real police officers](https://wwmt.com/news/on-point/on-point-michigan-doesnt-monitor-civilians-who-look-like-real-police-officers)** > > They patrol Michigan’s streets, wearing guns and badges. They even wear uniforms, but they are not real police officers. They are volunteers. Across Michigan, police departments and sheriff's offices enlist civilians to work alongside law enforcement... ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2020, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-to-kidnap-mi-gov-gretchen-whitmer/922506/138 "2020-10-11T02:57:39Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > But since it is an elected position with no accountability to anyone If he’s elected, he’s accountable to everyone… ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2020, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-to-kidnap-mi-gov-gretchen-whitmer/922506/139 "2020-10-11T03:05:16Z")
Whatever law that would stop my friends and me from storming City Hall with loaded automatic weapons, in my North NJ town, and then screaming “fire” in the crowded theater. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2020, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-to-kidnap-mi-gov-gretchen-whitmer/922506/140 "2020-10-11T03:17:16Z")
Not so much, most people don’t pay much attention to the Sheriff race, and about 60% of them run unopposed. Also a fair number of the voters in these counties are perfectly happy to have a sheriff who is a little be flexible as far as how the laws are enforced so long as the sheriffs target the undesirables rather than them. (92% of sheriffs are white, 98% are male) > **[reflectivedemocracy-americassheriffs-06.04.2020.pdf](https://wholeads.us/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/reflectivedemocracy-americassheriffs-06.04.2020.pdf)** > > 5.53 MB [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-to-kidnap-mi-gov-gretchen-whitmer/922506.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plot-to-kidnap-mi-gov-gretchen-whitmer/922506.md?page=8)