# Pls Help me to find the ones interested in this!: Are we controlled by secret forces? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 23, 2007, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pls-help-me-to-find-the-ones-interested-in-this-are-we-controlled-by-secret-forces/423682 "2007-10-23T10:32:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2007, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pls-help-me-to-find-the-ones-interested-in-this-are-we-controlled-by-secret-forces/423682/41 "2007-10-23T15:21:25Z")
From the linked page: > [@](#): > > Should I be wrong with my presumption and its not the [COLOR=Red]Elite which rules the World then it must be Aliens which I never seen; but the System we have I can see and it very real and the Jews position in this World is clear and I also see and believe is real![/COLOR] If it’s so real, and so clear, why are you the only one that sees it? Couldn’t it be something other than a)the elite or b)aliens? Why not? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2007, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pls-help-me-to-find-the-ones-interested-in-this-are-we-controlled-by-secret-forces/423682/42 "2007-10-23T15:23:01Z")
Oh good, the Jews feature prominently in your conspiracy theory. And you claim that Hitler’s program of genocide was a “reaction” to evil Jewish business practices. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy, that. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2007, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pls-help-me-to-find-the-ones-interested-in-this-are-we-controlled-by-secret-forces/423682/43 "2007-10-23T15:23:35Z")
**Oestert** , meet another post of this board, **[coberst](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=440521)**. You two are a match made in heaven. ---
**Author:** ![the\_PC\_apeman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac8455/32.png) [@the\_PC\_apeman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_PC_apeman)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2007, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pls-help-me-to-find-the-ones-interested-in-this-are-we-controlled-by-secret-forces/423682/44 "2007-10-23T15:26:38Z")
I’ve glanced at your file and the new expanded htm version. It looks like standard antisemitism. Why shouldn’t I dismiss it as just a bunch of religious intolerance? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2007, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pls-help-me-to-find-the-ones-interested-in-this-are-we-controlled-by-secret-forces/423682/45 "2007-10-23T15:41:22Z")
[QUOTE=oestert] Sorry Guys! Please don’t judge me by my English I know its bad; but again stupit teorys are not growing from English Grammar, at least I try hard, this is the third languish I am trying to master! Very hard for me to express my thinking by writing it down! Sitting together and talking about things is usually my way I like to communicating! [/QUOTE] You’re right; I shouldn’t tease you. \*Reads thru [the provided link.](http://indonesian.10001mb.com/download/Forum/draft-only-My-theory.htm) \* OK, maybe I should. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2007, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pls-help-me-to-find-the-ones-interested-in-this-are-we-controlled-by-secret-forces/423682/46 "2007-10-23T15:44:33Z")
**oestert** , you seem to have been having difficulty getting your page to load cleanly. (When I got there, I ran into a blog about Google with a half million pop-ups and when I went back I found only a page saying you were giving up.) Sorry for your problems. However, you might want to just drop this, anyway. This board is really not receptive to conspiracy theories–particularly those that believe in world domination and most particularly if they are going to try to blame it all on “the Jews.” I’m not telling you to go away, but I am telling you that your efforts here are probably doomed. (Something that should have been clear when you read Cecil Adams’s article mocking the Illuminatus and you took it as a serious support for such theories.) ---
**Author:** ![Staggerlee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/staggerlee/32/3134_2.png) [@Staggerlee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Staggerlee)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2007, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pls-help-me-to-find-the-ones-interested-in-this-are-we-controlled-by-secret-forces/423682/47 "2007-10-23T15:48:24Z")
[QUOTE=erie774] There are too many cultural, religious and economic differences around the world for a handful of “elites” to attempt to manipulate and control the world. [/QUOTE] I don’t entirely agree - there is no doubt an awful lot of creepy mutual back-slapping, nepotism and corruption which goes on in the ‘halls of power’. Financial interests are behind a great deal of political policy - and the Rupert Murdochs of this world can lend a big hand in determining the outcome of elections. Sorry for this rushed post, but what I’m trying to say is that ‘elite’ groups do control a lot in this world, but they’re not particularly secret. They are just rich people who want to stay that way, and use all the political influence money can buy to do so. (on edit) I haven’t read the OP’s theory, so please don’t take my post as being supportive of any anti-semitic cobblers, please.. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2007, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pls-help-me-to-find-the-ones-interested-in-this-are-we-controlled-by-secret-forces/423682/48 "2007-10-23T15:49:13Z")
[QUOTE=Maastricht] **Oestert** , meet another post of this board, **[coberst](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=440521)**. You two are a match made in heaven. [/QUOTE] No way, man. **Coberst** merely posts truisms like “Critical thinking is good” which he disguises as deep thoughts by being long winded. He’s not an anti-semitic conspiracy theorist. ---
**Author:** ![oestert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/0ea827/32.png) [@oestert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oestert)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2007, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pls-help-me-to-find-the-ones-interested-in-this-are-we-controlled-by-secret-forces/423682/49 "2007-10-23T15:57:49Z")
[QUOTE=Maastricht] **Oestert** , meet another post of this board, **[coberst](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=440521)**. You two are a match made in heaven. [/QUOTE] I tried but its already enough! I can see the way it is going already! No problem and thanks for your help I appreciate it but this will not get anywhere! Amazing is that my tread got 47 answers and was viewed 349 times in this short time! Very active forum thats for sure! Its up to you but if you can just delete my Tread. I give up! Sorry Guys for disturbing the system! ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2007, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pls-help-me-to-find-the-ones-interested-in-this-are-we-controlled-by-secret-forces/423682/50 "2007-10-23T16:02:03Z")
[QUOTE=Larry Borgia] No way, man. **Coberst** merely posts truisms like “Critical thinking is good” which he disguises as deep thoughts by being long winded. He’s not an anti-semitic conspiracy theorist. [/QUOTE] How would we know? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2007, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pls-help-me-to-find-the-ones-interested-in-this-are-we-controlled-by-secret-forces/423682/51 "2007-10-23T16:07:12Z")
[QUOTE=Revenant Threshold] How would we know? 😉 [/QUOTE] Well–and I know you’re just being facetious but still–Coberst does quote a number of Jewish philosophers and psychologists approvingly. ---
**Author:** ![oestert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/0ea827/32.png) [@oestert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oestert)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2007, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pls-help-me-to-find-the-ones-interested-in-this-are-we-controlled-by-secret-forces/423682/52 "2007-10-23T16:12:11Z")
The Straight Dope Fighting Ignorance since 1973 (It’s taking longer than we thought) I really liked your Forum header and the last part is so true. I like to add this “it will take even longer” ---
**Author:** ![the\_PC\_apeman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac8455/32.png) [@the\_PC\_apeman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_PC_apeman)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2007, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pls-help-me-to-find-the-ones-interested-in-this-are-we-controlled-by-secret-forces/423682/53 "2007-10-23T16:16:38Z")
**oestert** , do you have anything to present that is well-reasoned and supported by evidence? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2007, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pls-help-me-to-find-the-ones-interested-in-this-are-we-controlled-by-secret-forces/423682/54 "2007-10-23T16:33:02Z")
Assuming that you’re sticking around long enough to read a few more responses , I’ve got a few questions. On the original page that you linked to, you said: > [@](#): > > Hitler’s Second World War first reaction to Jew’s Business practice! > […] > My future Dream line! When finally the Public wakes up and frees him self’s from the Top Jews Business Elite Money. Seeing the Holocaust (and evidently the entire Second World War) as a legitimate “reaction” and then wishing for the public to ‘free itself’ from the Jews is a bit different from simply blaming the Jews for the world’s problems, yes? Do you believe Hitler was wrong to start the Second World War? Do you believe that, to the extent that it targeted Jews, Hitler was doing the right thing? And more to the point, in what manner, _specifically_ do you feel the world should ‘free itself’ from the Jews? You also posted in this thread: > [@oestert](#): > > I really liked your Forum header and the last part is so true. > I like to add this “it will take even longer” So you believe that not blaming the Jews for the world’s problems is ignorant? You have previously stated that you are unsure as to the accuracy of your claims. Does this mean that the other claims you’re unsure of, but you’re 100% positive that the Jews control the world? Just to humor me, what would your ideal reaction from this board have been? If people saw your web page and responded “Yes, we have to do something about the Jews!” would that have made you happy? ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2007, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pls-help-me-to-find-the-ones-interested-in-this-are-we-controlled-by-secret-forces/423682/55 "2007-10-23T16:36:44Z")
[QUOTE=Larry Borgia] Well–and I know you’re just being facetious but still–Coberst does quote a number of Jewish philosophers and psychologists approvingly. [/QUOTE] I put the smiley in specifically to make sure people got I wasn’t actually accusing him of antisemitism. Just obfuscating. ---
**Author:** ![oestert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/0ea827/32.png) [@oestert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oestert)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2007, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pls-help-me-to-find-the-ones-interested-in-this-are-we-controlled-by-secret-forces/423682/56 "2007-10-23T18:16:45Z")
You are taking me wrong I don’t like killing but I am searching for the reasons for killing. There is no one which will dispute that what happened in the Second World War was wrong. Also it was wrong what happened in Kosowo just a short wail ago lucky it did not go on for 16 years. Also the Vietnam was wrong! Also what happens now is wrong! There will never be any excuse when anyone kills people for whatever reason! But for something to happen like this usually there is a reason right ore wrong! I don’t think there is any good enough excuse to kill and there is not a clean way to kill! Why are the terrorist killing people! It is always a reason! The reason is what has to be controlled not the killing because then it is to late already! So in this respect I like to go to the situation we have now what makes the people go to other country’s to kill! To me it is clear it’s all about money! It started because of money and it continues because of money! The terrorist use god to justify there killing. America use what? You rightful say what Hitler did was wrong to make everyone hate the Jews even he trained the children in school to hate Jews! Yes all wrong! Now America year 2007 we are all civilized right! So what American Government is doing now is right to make all people to hate Muslims! So could we say what the American Government is doing now is for a good reason to make the World go against the Muslims! The way I see it but it’s only my personal view what happens now is not to much better from what happened a long time ago! Can we see how it will end if this continues for another 16 years! What is it that Jews in general are still not liked very much? Why is it that the Asians people call the Chinese staying in Asian the Asian Jew why are the Chinese being compared with Jews? There must be a reason! Why are the Jews right now Fighting the Muslims is there a good reason for killing! No there isn’t but when it comes to Business and money it same to be a just fight reason! Why the terrorist do what they do is it not because of money, ore lets say because of not having enough money! The thing I try to say is it’s always money coursing all problems! No what would this have to do with the Jews? What does this have to do with the Chinese being in Asian and just about own everything when it comes to business! What reason at the time in Germany to not like the Jews? No I don’t say it is right what I say is it has a reason for things to go wrong! If we can solve and get the reasons under control then there will not be a conflict! ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2007, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pls-help-me-to-find-the-ones-interested-in-this-are-we-controlled-by-secret-forces/423682/57 "2007-10-23T18:26:24Z")
I think you can pretty much trace all the bad shit in the world back to power and greed (actually, greed pretty much covers it all because power is a subset of greed IMHO). ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2007, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pls-help-me-to-find-the-ones-interested-in-this-are-we-controlled-by-secret-forces/423682/58 "2007-10-23T19:04:01Z")
[QUOTE=oestert] The thing I try to say is it’s always money coursing all problems! No what would this have to do with the Jews? What does this have to do with the Chinese being in Asian and just about own everything when it comes to business! What reason at the time in Germany to not like the Jews? No I don’t say it is right what I say is it has a reason for things to go wrong! If we can solve and get the reasons under control then there will not be a conflict! [/QUOTE] Dammit, I said _ **dilute!** _ ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2007, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pls-help-me-to-find-the-ones-interested-in-this-are-we-controlled-by-secret-forces/423682/59 "2007-10-23T19:29:32Z")
Hitler… there was a painter! He could paint an entire apartment in ONE afternoon! TWO coats! ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2007, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pls-help-me-to-find-the-ones-interested-in-this-are-we-controlled-by-secret-forces/423682/60 "2007-10-23T19:53:05Z")
I’m going to take it on faith here that you’re being honest in your desire to get at the truth. I may be mistaken, but I’ll run with this assumption for now at least. [QUOTE=oestert] But for something to happen like this usually there is a reason right ore wrong! [/quote] Why does the reason have to have anything to do with the target of irrational violence? If a man loses his job and comes home, and then beats the shit out of his wife, does it make more sense to look at his actions, or to ask what she did to cause it? When blacks were lynched in the United States, would it have made more sense to look at the pathology of the murderous racists who killed them, or to ask what blacks had done to deserve it? When Germany’s economy was in ruins and their national pride was at a very low level, and they decided to pick the Jews as scapegoats, does it make more sense to look at the pathology of racism or to ask what the Jews did to deserve it? [QUOTE=oestert] The reason is what has to be controlled not the killing because then it is to late already! [/quote] Let’s stick to the example you brought up, okay? First, what should Hitler/the world have done to “control” the reason? Does the fact that it was an irrational, dishonest hatred of Jews, built on slander, have any impact on your thinking? [QUOTE=oestert] So what American Government is doing now is right to make all people to hate Muslims! [/quote] Well, first, America isn’t doing that. America is at war with _Islamists_ not _Islam_. There is a huge difference. [QUOTE=oestert] What is it that Jews in general are still not liked very much? [/quote] There are lots of bigots. A better question would be why do _you_ think Jews aren’t liked? [QUOTE=oestert] Why is it that the Asians people call the Chinese staying in Asian the Asian Jew why are the Chinese being compared with Jews? [/quote] Bigots hate Jews and use the word “Jew” as an epithet. When American bigots refer to Arabs as “sand niggers”, does that make you ask what black people have done to ‘deserve’ such hatred? Why or why not? Again, the better question is why do _you_ think that some Asians might call the Chinese “Asian Jews”? [QUOTE=oestert] There must be a reason! [/quote] Why do you assume that irrational hatred is not the reason, but that rational hatred is? If a crazy person decided that all people with blue eyes ruled the world, and then started killing them, would his insanity be the reason or would you think that maybe blue eyed people really do rule the world? [QUOTE=oestert] Why are the Jews right now Fighting the Muslims is there a good reason for killing! [/quote] Again, they’re not. Some but not all Jews are. “The Jews”, as a whole, can’t agree on which sect to follow. Let alone which war to wage. As for the I/P conflict, I’m not going to get into it here. Save to say that it is interesting that you conflate Israel with “the Jews”. Why do you do that? [QUOTE=oestert] Why the terrorist do what they do is it not because of money, ore lets say because of not having enough money! [/quote] The Bin Ladens are a fantastically wealthy family. Many supporters of terrorism are oil-rich. There have been highly educated terrorists as well, so lack of education can be ruled out as an exclusive cause. Ideology, however, is one uniting factor behind Islamic terrorism. Why do you believe that everything boils down to money? People fight all the time over things like love, status, honor, culture, religion… no? [QUOTE=oestert] The thing I try to say is it’s always money coursing all problems! [/quote] Even if that was true, and it isn’t, do you have any proof for any of your claims that it’s one group that holds control over money? [QUOTE=oestert] No what would this have to do with the Jews? [/quote] Nothing. Why would you think it does? [QUOTE=oestert] What does this have to do with the Chinese being in Asian and just about own everything when it comes to business! [/quote] Do “the Jews” actually “own just about everything when it comes to business”, or do bigots simply hate them and repeat that lie? [QUOTE=oestert] What reason at the time in Germany to not like the Jews? No I don’t say it is right what I say is it has a reason for things to go wrong! [/quote] There were a lot of bigoted assholes in Nazi Germany. There’s a reason. Why do you find that to be less likely than that all the Jews in Germany, even the poor ones, were really rich? [QUOTE=oestert] If we can solve and get the reasons under control then there will not be a conflict! [/QUOTE] So your solution to bigotry is to look at the people the bigots hate, not the bigots? Does that really make sense to you? The Nazis also butchered numerous homosexuals. Are the Nazis to blame for that, or did the gays themselves provide some sort of “reason” for butchering them? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pls-help-me-to-find-the-ones-interested-in-this-are-we-controlled-by-secret-forces/423682.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pls-help-me-to-find-the-ones-interested-in-this-are-we-controlled-by-secret-forces/423682.md?page=4)