# Plural of 'torus'. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 2, 2018, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plural-of-torus/817198 "2018-07-02T22:28:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2018, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plural-of-torus/817198/41 "2018-07-04T23:25:47Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > But a toroid is not necessarily a torus. Topologically, neither is a donut. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2018, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plural-of-torus/817198/42 "2018-07-04T23:27:47Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > See, that’s the problem and it leads to false plurals, like octopi and hippopotami. 😕 Well, I _know_ how to pluralize “octopus”; should it be “hippopotamodes”? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2018, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plural-of-torus/817198/43 "2018-07-04T23:46:08Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > 😕 > > Well, I _know_ how to pluralize “octopus”; should it be “hippopotamodes”? Octopuses. Hippopotamuses. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plural-of-torus/817198/44 "2018-07-05T00:02:56Z")
Or, if you insist on being all classical about it, octopodes and hippopoamoi. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plural-of-torus/817198/45 "2018-07-05T00:13:03Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Only dufi make those mistakes. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Topologist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/topologist/32/3208_2.png) [@Topologist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Topologist)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plural-of-torus/817198/46 "2018-07-05T02:10:54Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > ISTM that using “tableau” is itself a minor affectation in the first place, so, yeah, “tableaux” definitely qualifies. It’s a standard term when talking about the simplex method for solving linear programming problems. Not my specialty, but something I teach regularly. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plural-of-torus/817198/47 "2018-07-05T02:57:46Z")
Also analytic tableaux, Young tableaux, etc. If someone mentioned “Young tables”, _that_ would be a bizarre affectation. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plural-of-torus/817198/48 "2018-07-05T12:20:29Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > See, that’s the problem and it leads to false plurals, like octopi and hippopotami. Some of you had to know this was coming: > [@](#): > > One hippopotami cannot get on a bus, > Because one hippopotami is two hippopotamus > And if you have two goose, that makes one geese > A pair of mouse is mice A pair of moose is meese – Allan Sherman _One Hippopotami_ ---
**Author:** ![EdelweissPirate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8491ac/32.png) [@EdelweissPirate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EdelweissPirate)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plural-of-torus/817198/49 "2018-07-05T13:51:10Z")
> [@Topologist](#): > > Attributed to, but incorrectly, it seems. (See Wikipedia or [Wikiquote](https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Paul_Erd%C5%91s).) I also understood this to be first said by Erdös, and I am delighted to be corrected. Ignorance fought! Also, it resolved some confusion for me: why would Erdös say this about coffee, when clearly he was himself a machine for turning amphetamines into theorems? I mean, I hear Erdös loved his coffee, but he was never afraid to acknowledge the more central role amphetamines played in his (extraordinary) productivity. So it makes sense that someone else said it first. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plural-of-torus/817198/50 "2018-07-05T14:10:45Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Toruses is correct. I would use “toruses” myself, but since this is GQ we should note that there is no way to determine which plural form is correct. There is no factual answer to that question, just a matter of choice or style. My own personal view is that if a word has become so common that it is now part of the English language, treat it by English language rules. But that determination is also subjective, so there is no way to draw a line. Another interesting situation is the reverse-- where a word enters English as a plural, and then one has to ask how to singularize it. Do you ask for a biscotto when wants only one, or do you ask for one biscotti? I said “biscotto” once to a barista and she looked at me like I was crazy. “Oh, you mean a biscotti?” Yeah, whatever. But then the question becomes, if I want two, do I ask for 2 biscottis? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plural-of-torus/817198/51 "2018-07-05T14:27:12Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Another interesting situation is the reverse-- where a word enters English as a plural, and then one has to ask how to singularize it. Do you ask for a biscotto when wants only one, or do you ask for one biscotti? I said “biscotto” once to a barista and she looked at me like I was crazy. “Oh, you mean a biscotti?” Yeah, whatever. But then the question becomes, if I want two, do I ask for 2 biscottis? 🙂 Generally, if it enters as a plural, it stays a plural. I grew up speaking Polish, so, for me, I know damned well that _pierogi_ is plural, and that a single one is a _pierog_, but, when speaking English (in most cases), I use _pierogi_ for both the singular and the plural. I’ll also pronounce it in the local manner, which is like “puh-ROH-ghee” rather than the Polish, which is more like “pyeh-ROH-ghee” (with a “flap r” instead of a retroflex-r.) I do often use the correct Polish forms if I’m talking in English to a native Polish speaker. (For example, when talking to my mom, I may say “can you pass me a pierog?”) ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plural-of-torus/817198/52 "2018-07-05T14:38:46Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Personally? Because I prefer foreign words to be pluralized in the target language by the target language’s rules. +1 “Torus” is a Latin masculine noun, and the plural form is “Tori”. “Toruses” is a Latin word that has been forced to obey English conventions governing plurality. Either is correct, but “Tori” is more aesthetically pleasing. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plural-of-torus/817198/53 "2018-07-05T18:06:50Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > +1 > > “Torus” is a Latin masculine noun, and the plural form is “Tori”. “Toruses” is a Latin word that has been forced to obey English conventions governing plurality. Either is correct, but “Tori” is more aesthetically pleasing. No, Torus is a \*English word. \*We stole it fair and square. They were just lying there in that dark alley and loose vocabulary was coming out of their pockets, what else could we do. Thus the plural is toruses. If, indeed, you are speaking Latin, then use tori. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plural-of-torus/817198/54 "2018-07-05T18:08:15Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Personally? Because I prefer foreign words to be pluralized in the target language by the target language’s rules. If we did that for every word English has stolen, no one would know what the plural is for anything. Torus is now English. We stole from Latins dead body. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plural-of-torus/817198/55 "2018-07-05T19:15:41Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > If we did that for every word English has stolen, no one would know what the plural is for anything. Torus is now English. We stole from Latins dead body. What’s the plural of bacterium? Or locus? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plural-of-torus/817198/56 "2018-07-05T21:44:17Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > If we did that for every word English has stolen, no one would know what the plural is for anything. Torus is now English. We stole from Latins dead body. I believe we agree. Like I said I prefer “toruses.” (You even agree with me on your post on page one.) Are people misunderstanding what I’m saying? I said “I prefer foreign words to be pluralized in the target language by the target language’s rules.” So, _torus_ is a “foreign” word English borrowed and my preference is that it should be pluralized in the target language (English) by the target language’s (English’s) rules. Ergo, _toruses_. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plural-of-torus/817198/57 "2018-07-06T00:47:17Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I believe we agree. Like I said I prefer “toruses.” (You even agree with me on your post on page one.) Are people misunderstanding what I’m saying? I said “I prefer foreign words to be pluralized in the target language by the target language’s rules.” So, _torus_ is a “foreign” word English borrowed and my preference is that it should be pluralized in the target language (English) by the target language’s (English’s) rules. Ergo, _toruses_. Ita! vērō!😃 ---
**Author:** ![Itself](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/d07c76/32.png) [@Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2018, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plural-of-torus/817198/58 "2018-07-07T05:28:06Z")
As a mathematician (and moreover a topologist), we absolutely use ‘tori’ over ‘toruses’. Google reports more than 100 times as many searches for “maximal tori” as “maximal toruses,” for example. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2018, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plural-of-torus/817198/59 "2018-07-07T10:28:55Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Generally, if it enters as a plural, it stays a plural. I grew up speaking Polish, so, for me, I know damned well that _pierogi_ is plural, and that a single one is a _pierog_, but, when speaking English (in most cases), I use _pierogi_ for both the singular and the plural. I’ll also pronounce it in the local manner, which is like “puh-ROH-ghee” rather than the Polish, which is more like “pyeh-ROH-ghee” (with a “flap r” instead of a retroflex-r.) I do often use the correct Polish forms if I’m talking in English to a native Polish speaker. (For example, when talking to my mom, I may say “can you pass me a pierog?”) Huh. It never would have occurred to me that anyone would ever ask for just _one_ of those… ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2018, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plural-of-torus/817198/60 "2018-07-07T13:30:18Z")
I’ve always used “pierogi” as the singular, and “pierogis” as the plural. Which I now learn is wrong, but it won’t be the first time English has double-pluralized a word. As for contexts where the singular might be used: (when making them) “That pierogi didn’t seal up properly.” (when serving them at the fish fry) “Give that customer an extra pierogi.” (when finishing up a meal) “Who wants the last pierogi?” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plural-of-torus/817198.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/plural-of-torus/817198.md?page=4)