# Pocket Aircraft Carriers ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 7, 2003, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pocket-aircraft-carriers/153361 "2003-02-07T01:52:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2003, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pocket-aircraft-carriers/153361/1 "2003-02-07T01:52:09Z")
The president today informed us: > [@](#): > > Iraq has developed spray devices that could be used on unmanned aerial vehicles with ranges far beyond what is permitted by the Security Council. A UAV launched from a vessel off the American coast could reach hundreds of miles inland. [-text of speech](http://foxnews.com/story/0,2933,77837,00.html) [A bit more on UAV’s](http://www.analisidifesa.it/numero26/eng/ef-uaveng.htm) This brings up the question of what sort of ship could be used to launch these UAV’s ? Obviously a standard aircraft carrier is out of the question for most small nations and terrorist groups, so that leaves them with a choice between modified cargo vessels, clandestine airstrips on uninhabited offshore islands, or pontoon type aircraft. Considering just the idea of launching off a cargo ship, does anyone know whether anyone has ever launched a moderate range aircraft off a cargo ship, and if so, how the feat was accomplished ? ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2003, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pocket-aircraft-carriers/153361/2 "2003-02-07T02:04:18Z")
Most cruisers and battleships had launch capabilities in the second world war. I don’t see where it would be hard to put a catupult on a frieghter. Or for that matter just carry a seaplane. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2003, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pocket-aircraft-carriers/153361/3 "2003-02-07T02:27:20Z")
I suppose you could rig up a pnuematic launch system that could fit on a 40’ yacht with only minor difficulty. This site shows pics of truck-mounted launchers for UAVs with 1000 km ranges. [http://khai.itl.net.ua/eng/niipfm/](http://khai.itl.net.ua/eng/niipfm/) ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2003, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pocket-aircraft-carriers/153361/4 "2003-02-07T02:42:33Z")
Those POISK’s are pretty aircraft, but they seem have payload limits of less than 50 kg. Is there anything heftier, say with a 500-1000Lb payload capability, that can be launched via a simple catapult ? ---
**Author:** ![paperbackwriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@paperbackwriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paperbackwriter)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2003, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pocket-aircraft-carriers/153361/5 "2003-02-07T03:44:23Z")
The [Pioneer short-range UAV](http://www.fas.org/irp/program/collect/pioneer.htm) has been successfully deployed from ships during Gulf War I. If you look at the pictures at the bottom of the page you can see it being launched from the USS Missouri and recovered aboard an amphib assault ship. The launch is a zero-length rocket assisted launch over the rail, so that could undoubtedly work with a freighter. I would not worry about recovery, but just let it crash at the end of its flight. The payload is 75 lbs, that would be a lot of biological agent. The range is dependent on the control system, but 40-185km is listed. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2003, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pocket-aircraft-carriers/153361/6 "2003-02-07T04:11:29Z")
With **paperbackwriter** ’s cite, [this shot](http://www.fas.org/irp/program/collect/avlaun1.jpg) shows the space needed is about 15 feet. It could be launched off of a shrimp boat, fishing boat, leisure craft, yadda, yadda… ---
**Author:** ![Ennui](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ennui/32/3396_2.png) [@Ennui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ennui)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2003, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pocket-aircraft-carriers/153361/7 "2003-02-07T04:23:15Z")
Not wishing to pander to the fear mongers but I see no reason a small UAV couldn’t be assembled on and launched from deck of a W.W.II era diesel submarine. But this is very far from saying Saddam/Osamma or anyone else has developed such a thing or purchased any vintage subs from cash strapped former superpowers. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2003, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pocket-aircraft-carriers/153361/8 "2003-02-07T04:39:44Z")
Why use a conspicuous diesel sub when you can use a non-descript anonymous cargo ship? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2003, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pocket-aircraft-carriers/153361/9 "2003-02-07T05:17:53Z")
If anyone else wants to do the math, there are some frightening bioweapons numbers to be had at the [Jewish Virtual Library](http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/Terrorism/bioterror.html). (Way TMI for the squeamish) Lacking familiarity with the source, I’m not sure how good the numbers are, but they at least _seem_ reasonable. A 20 liter payload of Anthrax could inflict a _lot_ of damage. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2003, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pocket-aircraft-carriers/153361/10 "2003-02-07T07:09:48Z")
Actually, I remember reading reports months ago that either Iraq or al-Qaida or both were suspected of working on ship-based missile and/or UAV launches. That’s probably why Bush last week said that state sponsorship of terrorism would give them access to buy weapons and ships. ---
**Author:** ![paperbackwriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@paperbackwriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paperbackwriter)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2003, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pocket-aircraft-carriers/153361/11 "2003-02-08T20:47:09Z")
I think I should say that Iraq has almost no vessels with which to do this. According to [Hazegray.org](http://www.hazegray.org/worldnav/), which is probably the best web-based inventory of naval forces, the largest vessel is [an inoperable and damaged frigate](http://www.hazegray.org/worldnav/mideast/iraq.htm). Even if this were usable, it is not likely to be able to slip out into the Persian Gulf without the US noticing and destroying it. We would have to posit the involvement of a third country or commercial interests for the President’s scenario. Maybe Al-Qaida could hire an Egyptian freighter or something. ---
**Author:** ![Rhum\_Runner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rhum\_Runner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhum_Runner)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2003, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pocket-aircraft-carriers/153361/12 "2003-02-08T21:06:33Z")
Why not just put a float plane on a cargo ship, lower it over the side with the onboard crane and be done with it? No need to get all 21st century with UAVs…l ---
**Author:** ![Ringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/779978/32.png) [@Ringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ringo)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2003, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pocket-aircraft-carriers/153361/13 "2003-02-08T21:30:11Z")
With a UAV you don’t need to (probably) sacrifice a pilot. ---
**Author:** ![Rhum\_Runner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rhum\_Runner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhum_Runner)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2003, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pocket-aircraft-carriers/153361/14 "2003-02-08T21:37:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ringo \* > \*\*With a UAV you don’t need to (probably) sacrifice a pilot. \*\* Right, 'cause that is such a concern of Iraq et. al. It’s a suicide mission either way. After you spray NYC I doubt the Navy will be in a mood to take the control ship crew prisoner. Grab an old [Otter](http://ebushpilot.com/gallery4.htm) or [Beaver](http://ebushpilot.com/gallery1.htm) and you could carry way more agent in a proven, reliable airframe. (At far less cost than a high-tech UAV) ---
**Author:** ![Crusoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Crusoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crusoe)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2003, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pocket-aircraft-carriers/153361/15 "2003-02-08T21:39:08Z")
Popping back to an OP, there were suicidally brave RAF [Sea Hurricane Mk 1A pilots](http://www.raf.mod.uk/history/hurri7.html) who performed a similar role during World War II. Due to the shortage of aircraft carriers, convoys to Russia were often exposed to German bomber attacks without cover. One attempt to guard against this was to build catapults onto cargo vessels, creating Catapult Armed Merchantment (CAM ships). Each carried one or two “Catfighters” (aka “Hurricats”), launching them from into battle with nowhere to land. The pilots ditched and hoped for rescue – maybe fine in the Mediterranean, but God help them in the Baltic convoys. _(some great photos at that link)_