# Poe -\> Lovecraft -\> Matheson -\> King -\> ????? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 29, 2013, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poe-lovecraft-matheson-king/659619 "2013-05-29T13:48:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poe-lovecraft-matheson-king/659619/1 "2013-05-29T13:48:55Z")
Edgar Allan Poe H.P. Lovecraft Richard Matheson Stephen King Horror’s “Big 4” is pretty well established. But who will be number five? Someone just starting out like Joe Hill or Scott Sigler? Or will it be someone who has yet to publish their first story? ---
**Author:** ![yanceylebeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yanceylebeef/32/12290_2.png) [@yanceylebeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yanceylebeef)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poe-lovecraft-matheson-king/659619/2 "2013-05-29T14:50:20Z")
I’m in the middle of NOS4A2 right now, so I’d have to say Joe Hill. He definitely has his daddy’s chops. ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poe-lovecraft-matheson-king/659619/3 "2013-05-29T15:21:07Z")
**yancey** , I was going to say the same. That’s how great King is…he gave us his own replacement! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Iggins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Iggins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggins)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poe-lovecraft-matheson-king/659619/4 "2013-05-29T16:47:03Z")
How is Clive Barker regarded with respect to the “Big 4”? ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poe-lovecraft-matheson-king/659619/5 "2013-05-29T16:56:49Z")
\*\*Poe -\> Lovecraft -\> Matheson -\> King -\> Koontz --\> Barker --\>? \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poe-lovecraft-matheson-king/659619/6 "2013-05-29T16:58:02Z")
How do we determine who even makes the list? I love HP Lovecraft but most people have never heard of him and wouldn’t know Cthulhu from Nyarlathotep and would tell you to stop being racist when you talked about Shub-Niggurath. But Lovecraft has certainly influenced many writers including Stephen King so I’ve got no problem with him being on the list. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poe-lovecraft-matheson-king/659619/7 "2013-05-29T17:06:49Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Someone just starting out like Joe Hill or Scott Sigler? Scott Sigler is very interesting, IMO, considering he is best known for (at least, IMO) releasing his books as audiobooks in podcast form. He was a hit in that format and got a publisher because of it (again, IIRC). I’ve listened/read a few of his books and they are decent. I like that he tries to infuse some science in his work, but I can only recall him writing one thing that really stood out to me (Infection). It’s been a while since I read him though. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poe-lovecraft-matheson-king/659619/8 "2013-05-29T17:15:27Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > How do we determine who even makes the list? I love HP Lovecraft but most people have never heard of him and wouldn’t know Cthulhu from Nyarlathotep and would tell you to stop being racist when you talked about Shub-Niggurath. But Lovecraft has certainly influenced many writers including Stephen King so I’ve got no problem with him being on the list. Influence was pretty much how I made the list. Poe influenced Lovecraft. Poe and Lovecraft influenced Matheson and all three influenced King. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poe-lovecraft-matheson-king/659619/9 "2013-05-29T17:17:01Z")
> [@Meatros](#): > > I’ve listened/read a few of his books and they are decent. I like that he tries to infuse some science in his work, but I can only recall him writing one thing that really stood out to me (Infection). It’s been a while since I read him though. I like Sigler (and his newest, Nocturnal, is pretty great), but I worry he’s turning into a one trick pony. An entertaining one-trick pony, but I don’t picture him writing an “I Am Legend” or a “Stand” level story anytime soon. ---
**Author:** ![papergirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/aca169/32.png) [@papergirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/papergirl)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poe-lovecraft-matheson-king/659619/10 "2013-05-29T18:20:15Z")
I like Joe Hill quite a lot. Inventive, who’d-a-thunk-of-that plots, which he manages to make seem pretty plausible. Much like Stephen King in his earlier books, I think. I hope he can keep up the momentum. I’ll have to check out some of the other newer authors mentioned here. I usually stick with short horror fiction but I’m trying to read more realio trulio books. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Just\_Ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Ed)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poe-lovecraft-matheson-king/659619/11 "2013-05-29T18:38:14Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > \*\*Poe -\> Lovecraft -\> Matheson -\> King -\> Koontz –\> Barker –\>? > \*\* Clive Barker is nowhere near as prolific as either Koontz or King, but I would place him before Koontz in that hierarchy. Barker writes in a visceral, visual style, and is much more effective in inspiring real horror than Koontz (IMHO, of course). > [@papergirl](#): > > I like Joe Hill quite a lot. Inventive, who’d-a-thunk-of-that plots, which he manages to make seem pretty plausible. Much like Stephen King in his earlier books, I think. Hill is indeed his father’s son, but having said that, also has his own voice. I haven’t read the new one, but I thought _Heart-Shaped Box_ and _Horns_ were both very good – and _20[sup]th[/sup] Century Ghosts_ has some real chills, too. I think Robert R. McCammon deserves a place on the list, and not far removed from King, Barker, and Hill. He’s been around a long time and has won or been nominated for the Bram Stoker award more than a couple of times (_Swan Song_, _Mine_, and _Boy’s Life_ being the standouts). What about Neil Gaiman? Or is his output considered more Fantasy than Horror? ---
**Author:** ![pinkfreud](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pinkfreud/32/17603_2.png) [@pinkfreud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinkfreud)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poe-lovecraft-matheson-king/659619/12 "2013-05-30T21:58:43Z")
I just finished reading [American Elsewhere](http://www.amazon.com/American-Elsewhere-Robert-Jackson-Bennett/dp/0316200204/), by Robert Jackson Bennett, and if he can keep up this level of excellence, I think Bennett has the potential to be the successor to Stephen King. This book is the best horror/SF/fantasy novel I’ve read in many years. I don’t often stay up all night reading, but this one was un-put-downable. Joe Hill, as mentioned by others, is very good, too, but my money is on Robert Jackson Bennett. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poe-lovecraft-matheson-king/659619/13 "2013-05-30T22:33:02Z")
No room on the list for Ramsey Campbell or Jack Ketchum or Richard Laymon or Graham Masterton or Robert McCammon or John Saul or Dan Simmons or Peter Straub? ---
**Author:** ![pinkfreud](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pinkfreud/32/17603_2.png) [@pinkfreud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinkfreud)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poe-lovecraft-matheson-king/659619/14 "2013-05-30T23:05:39Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > No room on the list for Ramsey Campbell or Jack Ketchum or Richard Laymon or Graham Masterton or Robert McCammon or John Saul or Dan Simmons or Peter Straub? Worthy names all, but these guys are from Stephen King’s generation. I assumed that we were nominating younger writers. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poe-lovecraft-matheson-king/659619/15 "2013-05-30T23:42:55Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > How do we determine who even makes the list? I love HP Lovecraft but most people have never heard of him I suspect many people, including most of those who are interested in horror, have heard of him, even if they haven’t read him, and that he has more name recognition than Matheson. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2013, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poe-lovecraft-matheson-king/659619/16 "2013-05-31T00:00:04Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > I suspect many people, including most of those who are interested in horror, have heard of him, even if they haven’t read him, and that he has more name recognition than Matheson. Likely true, but I’d argue that I Am Legend has more name recognition than Lovecraft (and everything Lovecraft wrote) even if fewer people know who wrote it. ---
**Author:** ![Private\_Bin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c0e974/32.png) [@Private\_Bin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Private_Bin)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2013, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poe-lovecraft-matheson-king/659619/17 "2013-05-31T06:20:06Z")
I nominate Laird Barron. He mostly writes short stories, but is beginning to move into novels (one of which, [The Croning](http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13279700-the-croning), I’ve just finished reading and really loved). Pretty heavily Lovecraft based, but lots of body horror as well. People rarely die in his stories, but old friends may turn up with a strange scar, or an obsession with bees, or what appears to be a zipper on the skin. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2013, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poe-lovecraft-matheson-king/659619/18 "2013-05-31T06:45:05Z")
Is Mark Z. Danielewski (most notably House of Leaves) too obscure? I hang around in horror circles so it’s hard to tell who’s popular **among horror fans** and who’s popular in general. ---
**Author:** ![Sassy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@Sassy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sassy)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2013, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poe-lovecraft-matheson-king/659619/19 "2013-05-31T19:41:57Z")
[http://miragrant.com/](http://miragrant.com/) ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2013, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poe-lovecraft-matheson-king/659619/20 "2013-05-31T19:59:23Z")
> [@Sassy](#): > > [http://miragrant.com/](http://miragrant.com/) Not quite yet (though the Newsflesh trilogy was bitchin’) and she loses a few points for writing _shudder_ urban fantasy. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poe-lovecraft-matheson-king/659619.md?page=2)