# Poe: The Fall of the House of Usher. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 15, 2005, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poe-the-fall-of-the-house-of-usher/294602 "2005-03-15T07:02:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2005, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poe-the-fall-of-the-house-of-usher/294602/21 "2005-03-20T06:04:51Z")
> [@kushiel](#): > > I wrote a whole essay predominantly on the theme of incest in the story. Basically, there is this quote: \*“I had learned too, the very remarkable fact, that the stem of the Usher race, all time-honored as it was, had put forth, at no period any enduring branch, in other words that the entire family lay in the direct line of descent.” \* Meaning, of course, that the whole family was inbred. As a professional genealogist, I have to ask — how could any descendants of the Usher branch _not_ be direct? Branch/descendants = direct descendants. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2005, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poe-the-fall-of-the-house-of-usher/294602/22 "2005-03-20T06:25:47Z")
I don’t look at it all that deeply. My interpretation of Poe is that he was trying to make a living writing and threw together whatever crap he thought would sell, but that sort of attitude is one reason I changed my major to anything besides English. ---
**Author:** ![ianzin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed655f/32.png) [@ianzin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ianzin)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2005, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poe-the-fall-of-the-house-of-usher/294602/23 "2005-03-20T16:22:58Z")
> [@kushiel](#): > > Then apparently my English proctor, and my two professors that have been teaching university English for over 30 years are wrong. There is nothing even remotely implausible about this. I have a degree in Eng. Lit. and I’d say it’s perfectly possible for supposedly ‘learned’ professors to stick to, or offer, interpretations which are wholly arbitrary or even dead wrong. The point is not whether someone has seemingly important credentials. The point is whether the position they put forward is based on good evidence and sound reasoning. (People offering bogus arguments often use a lame ‘appeal to authority’ which shouldn’t deflect sound reasoning.) If your professors can put forward a good case for the theory / interpretation that incest is a key theme of the story, that’s fine. But it may well be that they can’t, and that they are simply re-hashing the interpretation that _they_ were told was ‘correct’, when in fact it may be wrong, or when a different interpretation may have just as much merit. ---
**Author:** ![Aankh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ebca7d/32.png) [@Aankh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aankh)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poe-the-fall-of-the-house-of-usher/294602/24 "2005-03-22T11:36:25Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > Having said that I can’t remember the brother’s past with regards to marriage or children. Is it possible that he was gay? Given the time Poe wrote it in, that could be seen as a curse. This is an interesting interpretation. However, the curse is supposed to have been in the family for generations. If every male Usher was gay, well, there wouldn’t really be any Ushers then. On the whole, I guess the incest interpretation _can_ be supported. Anyone want to try a take at **Walloon** ’s post? ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poe-the-fall-of-the-house-of-usher/294602/25 "2005-03-22T16:12:44Z")
Well, I’ll take a wack at it. Poe may have been writing carelessly. I think what he meant to say that was that each generation of Ushers had only one son, and no daughter, who had offspring. **Sublight** and **Yllaria** had this interpretation above. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poe-the-fall-of-the-house-of-usher/294602/26 "2005-03-22T17:15:11Z")
> [@snorlax](#): > > In Dickens’ _David Copperfield_ there is a subplot involving a “fallen woman” whose supposed misdeeds are never explained. She presumably had had some sort of affair, but there are zero clues as to what her sins may have been. It seems the subject was too horrible to even mention but everyone in the novel seems to understand exactly what the situation is. Steerforth, the bounder, seduced Li’l Em’ly. Seemed perfectly clear to me. ---
**Author:** ![snorlax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@snorlax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snorlax)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poe-the-fall-of-the-house-of-usher/294602/27 "2005-03-22T23:14:00Z")
> [@Ukulele Ike](#): > > Steerforth, the bounder, seduced Li’l Em’ly. Seemed perfectly clear to me. I agree that the case of Emily is clear enough, and she is the major “fallen woman” character in the book. I was referring to [Martha](http://www.talkingto.co.uk/ttcd/html/ttcd_answ.asp?quesID=1612&CatID=94), whose situation foreshadows that of Emily. She’s introduced towards the end of [Chapter 22](http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-new2?id=DicDavi.sgm&images=images/modeng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=24&division=div1). ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poe-the-fall-of-the-house-of-usher/294602/28 "2005-03-23T00:01:14Z")
> [@aankh](#): > > This is an interesting interpretation. However, the curse is supposed to have been in the family for generations. If every male Usher was gay, well, there wouldn’t really be any Ushers then. Heh. See what happens when to take a WAG about a story you haven’t read in a decade? :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Aankh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ebca7d/32.png) [@Aankh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aankh)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2005, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poe-the-fall-of-the-house-of-usher/294602/29 "2005-03-26T10:13:56Z")
Lovecraft’s [_Facts concerning the Late Arthur Jermyn and his family_](http://www.dagonbytes.com/thelibrary/lovecraft/thelateaurthurjeryn.htm) contains the following lines: > [@](#): > > Madness was in all the Jermyns, and people were glad there were not many of them. The line put forth no branches, and Arthur was the last of it. If you read the story - and you should because Lovecraft rocks - you will see that the lack of branches in the family tree has nothing to do with incest. The author makes open references in the story to various Jermyns marrying outside the family and to only one Jermyn within a generation reproducing, the rest being physically or mentally unfit to do so. So did Poe use the phrase ‘putting forth branches’ in the same sense? I don’t know. If he did, it negates the incest interpretation, I would think, and gives credence to what **Yllaria** said in his/her post. Any further ideas, or should I let this dog lie already? ---
**Author:** ![Carm6773](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/2bfe46/32.png) [@Carm6773](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carm6773)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2005, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poe-the-fall-of-the-house-of-usher/294602/30 "2005-03-26T13:39:17Z")
> [@aankh](#): > > A google search on [“house of usher incest”](http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=house+of+usher+incest&btnG=Search) comes up with more than 36,000 references to theme. I did a paper on this very subject my sophomore year of HS. Specifically, I stated that they were in an incestuous relationship, and that the destruction of the mansion was a symbolic representation of the end of the family. > [@AveDementia](#): > > Its just sickness, insanity, and decay. The decay of the mansion represents the decay of the Usher family. This is represented by the crack in the wall that grew steadily as the relationship between Roderick and Madeline progressed. There were no heirs, and due to their relationship, the family line would not be continued. No family=no house. Since the reason of the family “death” was because of flaw in the family, the house eventually succumbed to the foundation weakness and crumbled inward on itself. IIRC, Poe was in an incestuous relationship himself (married his cousin, or something like that). He got a lot of flak, so the story could have been his subconscious way of venting. The teacher refused to give me anything higher than a B on the paper because she didn’t believe in my topic. I hope she sees this thread. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2005, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poe-the-fall-of-the-house-of-usher/294602/31 "2005-03-26T18:44:01Z")
> [@aankh](#): > > Lovecraft’s [_Facts concerning the Late Arthur Jermyn and his family_](http://www.dagonbytes.com/thelibrary/lovecraft/thelateaurthurjeryn.htm) contains the following lines: > > If you read the story - and you should because Lovecraft rocks - you will see that the lack of branches in the family tree has nothing to do with incest. The author makes open references in the story to various Jermyns marrying outside the family and to only one Jermyn within a generation reproducing, the rest being physically or mentally unfit to do so. Though one of the reason Jeymen’s ancestors were not reproducing because they kept being distracted by…other things. ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2005, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poe-the-fall-of-the-house-of-usher/294602/32 "2005-03-27T11:47:17Z")
Nitpick: > [@aankh](#): > > A google search on [“house of usher incest”](http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=house+of+usher+incest&btnG=Search) comes up with more than 36,000 references to theme. Not to be a party pooper, but “bill clinton incest” came up with 93,300 references to theme, and “donald duck incest” gave me 45,200 hits; Google doesn’t give you only pages that have all of the search terms together in a related article. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poe-the-fall-of-the-house-of-usher/294602.md?page=1)