# Point me towards some good trashy fantasy fiction? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 19, 2011, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-me-towards-some-good-trashy-fantasy-fiction/606723 "2011-12-19T10:34:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Bloodless\_Turnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@Bloodless\_Turnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bloodless_Turnip)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-me-towards-some-good-trashy-fantasy-fiction/606723/41 "2011-12-20T21:57:52Z")
Anything [Varley](http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=john+varley&x=0&y=0) has ever written falls into the category you’re looking at I think. Wizard, Demon, and Titan especially. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-me-towards-some-good-trashy-fantasy-fiction/606723/42 "2011-12-20T23:54:03Z")
> [@Bloodless\_Turnip](#): > > Anything [Varley](http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=john+varley&x=0&y=0) has ever written falls into the category you’re looking at I think. > > Wizard, Demon, and Titan especially. Varley? Trashy? :dubious: Maybe we need a good working definition of “trashy” here. To my mind, “trashy” means the fantasy equivalent of “Tobacco Road” or “Valley of the Dolls” – something cheap and sensationalistic that relies on stereotypes, sleaze and so forth. Does not describe Varley, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Ratcatcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bcef8e/32.png) [@Ratcatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ratcatcher)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-me-towards-some-good-trashy-fantasy-fiction/606723/43 "2011-12-21T00:06:45Z")
I don’t think of writers like Beagle and Powers when I think of “trashy”. They’re quite accomplished and respected authors. When I want quick fantasy reading I usually go for the old school pulpy stuff, like R.E. Howard or C.L. Moore. Also, while I wouldn’t call Michael Moorcock trashy, a lot of his stuff is short and easy to get into (though he tends to have disappointing endings). Also recommend Fritz leiber if you want more heroic fantasy/sword & sorcery. For pure escapism with dragons and other clichéd fantasy monsters, there are hundreds of D&D and Warhammer books out there, but quality varies, and some are bad even as pure entertainment. Depends on how much you can stomach the clichés (personally, when it comes to fantasy I can stomach a lot, but some of them are a bit too clichéd and mindless). ---
**Author:** ![YoDoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e68b1a/32.png) [@YoDoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YoDoc)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-me-towards-some-good-trashy-fantasy-fiction/606723/44 "2011-12-21T00:29:13Z")
How about Harry Turtledove’s series about WWII? The name escapes me, and it might not be “trashy”, but it’s pretty good. ---
**Author:** ![Bloodless\_Turnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@Bloodless\_Turnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bloodless_Turnip)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-me-towards-some-good-trashy-fantasy-fiction/606723/45 "2011-12-21T00:42:25Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Varley? Trashy? :dubious: Maybe we need a good working definition of “trashy” here. To my mind, “trashy” means the fantasy equivalent of “Tobacco Road” or “Valley of the Dolls” – something cheap and sensationalistic that relies on stereotypes, sleaze and so forth. Does not describe Varley, I think. Steel Beach? Blue Champagne? All campy/trashy in my book. Great stuff, but certainly cheap and sleazy. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-me-towards-some-good-trashy-fantasy-fiction/606723/46 "2011-12-21T09:49:02Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Varley? Trashy? :dubious: Maybe we need a good working definition of “trashy” here. To my mind, “trashy” means the fantasy equivalent of “Tobacco Road” or “Valley of the Dolls” – something cheap and sensationalistic that relies on stereotypes, sleaze and so forth. Does not describe Varley, I think. FWIW, that’s not the sort of trashy I had in mind. Hence asked for ‘good’ trashy fiction. Essentially, not serious literature, but well-written books telling good stories. Like the Vorkosigan series, or some of the Star Wars books by particular authors - Timothy Zahn, Aaron Aallston. Or Novik, Lynch in recent Fantasy authors. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-me-towards-some-good-trashy-fantasy-fiction/606723/47 "2011-12-21T12:46:08Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > I’m reading the Thursday Next series now. They’re lots of fun but I wouldn’t call them trashy or fantasy. Not sure what I’d call them, actually. SF for book nerds? > > Have you read any Tim Powers? You’d probably like _The Anubis Gates_. First Tim Powers I read was _On Stranger Tides_ and picked it up because of reading that the last Pirates of the Caribbean movie (which wasn’t very good) had optioned the book to take some ideas from it. (The list of awards for the writer didn’t hurt.) Indeed, if you’ve seen the movie and then read the book, you can see some of the same ideas, but the book was a much more enjoyable read than watching that movie. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-me-towards-some-good-trashy-fantasy-fiction/606723/48 "2011-12-21T16:36:57Z")
> [@Bloodless\_Turnip](#): > > Steel Beach? Blue Champagne? > > All campy/trashy in my book. Great stuff, but certainly cheap and sleazy. How the hell is Steel Beach cheap or sleazy or trashy? Varley DOES reference Heinlein a lot. But Steel Beach is a well-imagined society, great characters. And as a nitpick, it’s not fantasy, but science fiction. It’s been too long since I’ve read Blue Champagne, but I do remember enjoying it. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-me-towards-some-good-trashy-fantasy-fiction/606723/49 "2011-12-21T16:42:53Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > FWIW, that’s not the sort of trashy I had in mind. Hence asked for ‘good’ trashy fiction. Essentially, not serious literature, but well-written books telling good stories. Like the Vorkosigan series, or some of the Star Wars books by particular authors - Timothy Zahn, Aaron Aallston. Or Novik, Lynch in recent Fantasy authors. OK, have you read Lawrence Watt-Evan’s Ethshar series? This is exactly what you’re looking for. For the most part, you don’t have to read the books in order, although some of the later books will reference the earlier books. ---
**Author:** ![YoDoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e68b1a/32.png) [@YoDoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YoDoc)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-me-towards-some-good-trashy-fantasy-fiction/606723/50 "2011-12-21T16:45:13Z")
As far as star wars, I like the Darth Bane books. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-me-towards-some-good-trashy-fantasy-fiction/606723/51 "2011-12-21T17:57:06Z")
> [@YoDoc](#): > > How about Harry Turtledove’s series about WWII? The name escapes me, and it might not be “trashy”, but it’s pretty good. He’s had two - one with the Confederate States, and another with aliens: > **[Southern Victory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Victory_Series)** > > The Southern Victory series or Timeline-191 is a series of eleven alternate history novels by author Harry Turtledove, beginning with How Few Remain (1997) and published over a decade. The period addressed in the series begins during the Civil War and spans nine decades, up to the mid-1940s. In the series, the Confederate States defeats the United States of America in 1862, therefore making good its attempt at secession and becoming an independent nation. Subsequent books are built on im The seco... > **[Worldwar series](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worldwar_series)** > > The Worldwar series is the fan name given to a series of eight alternate history science fiction novels by Harry Turtledove. Its premise is an alien invasion of Earth during World War II, with a timeline ranging from 1942 to 2031. The series includes Turtledove's Worldwar tetralogy, the Colonization trilogy, and the novel Homeward Bound. The early series was nominated for a Sidewise Award for Alternate History in 1996. > Worldwar deals with a military invasion that begins on or around May 30, 1942... ---
**Author:** ![YoDoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e68b1a/32.png) [@YoDoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YoDoc)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-me-towards-some-good-trashy-fantasy-fiction/606723/52 "2011-12-21T20:02:10Z")
World at War. Magic and stuff. Had to look it up. ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-me-towards-some-good-trashy-fantasy-fiction/606723/53 "2011-12-22T00:21:20Z")
If magically enhanced assassins float your fantasy reading boat then I’d suggest Brent Week’s _[Night Angel Trilogy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Night_Angel_Trilogy)_. A friend lent them to me and I read them with no expectations (I’d not even heard of the author before); I found them pretty un-put-down-able. Once note though: I really wouldn’t want to be a character written by Mr. Weeks… he’s more than a little hard on many of them. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Archergal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Archergal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Archergal)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-me-towards-some-good-trashy-fantasy-fiction/606723/54 "2011-12-23T04:39:34Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > The \* Eyre Affair \* is probably the best of the Thursday Next books. After the first, the “Book World” takes over and it’s just so precious and twee that it really ruins the surreal bizarreness of Thursday’s actual world.l. ZOMG, you mean I’m NOT the only person to find those books twee??? I’ve been feeling a tiny bit guilty because I didn’t like them. Thank dog I’m not alone! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-me-towards-some-good-trashy-fantasy-fiction/606723/55 "2011-12-23T14:14:10Z")
_The Eyre Affair_ was certainly more than a wee bit twee. ---
**Author:** ![Gozu\_Tashoya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7993a0/32.png) [@Gozu\_Tashoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gozu_Tashoya)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-me-towards-some-good-trashy-fantasy-fiction/606723/56 "2011-12-23T21:56:32Z")
I recommend Patrick Rothfuss’ The Name of the Wind and its sequel, assuming you like TNOTW, The Wise Man’s Fear. ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2011, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-me-towards-some-good-trashy-fantasy-fiction/606723/57 "2011-12-24T01:25:12Z")
> [@Gozu\_Tashoya](#): > > I recommend Patrick Rothfuss’ The Name of the Wind and its sequel, assuming you like TNOTW, The Wise Man’s Fear. While I am a huge fan and recommend the book highly - I just don’t think of it as \*trashy \*fantasy. ---
**Author:** ![brocks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7feea3/32.png) [@brocks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brocks)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2011, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-me-towards-some-good-trashy-fantasy-fiction/606723/58 "2011-12-24T01:59:02Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > I read a synopsis of Chalion, and the premise sounded so similar - scrawny character in a terrible situation who then works things out - I figured I’d just wait for another Miles book. May not be another Miles book; the last one was by far the worst, and I think she’s getting tired of him. You really should give Chalion a try. It’s not like Miles at all. IMO the first (the Curse) is not only Bujold’s best book (and I’ve read them all), but my favorite book of all time. I reread it about once a year. The second is average for Bujold, which is pretty good. The third was the worst Bujold I’ve ever read, even worse than her last Miles book. Note that they are not a trilogy. Although it certainly helps to read the first before the second, they are stand-alone. Nothing can help the third. You might also try “The Spirit Ring,” a Bujold semi-fantasy set in Renaissance times. In fact, now that I’m reminded of it, I think I’ll read it again. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2011, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-me-towards-some-good-trashy-fantasy-fiction/606723/59 "2011-12-24T11:19:38Z")
> [@Gozu\_Tashoya](#): > > I recommend Patrick Rothfuss’ The Name of the Wind and its sequel, assuming you like TNOTW, The Wise Man’s Fear. > [@Khadaji](#): > > While I am a huge fan and recommend the book highly - I just don’t think of it as \*trashy \*fantasy. You must have missed the line in the OP. I have read and loved the NOTW. It was the book that I recommended to people the most. I was a massive Rothfuss fanboy, going as far as to buy(for his worldbuilders charity) a 100$ signed copy of the humorous college articles he wrote. I was so convinced he could do no wrong. And then he went and published WMF. I have no words for how much that book disappointed me. Page after page of Rothfuss’ beautiful writing all squandered in one of the most horrifically plotted, least story advancing 1000+ page tomes that it has ever been my misfortune to come across. I no longer even recommend NOTW because I have no idea what he’s going to do with the story, and no more faith that it’s going to be something good. > [@brocks](#): > > May not be another Miles book; the last one was by far the worst, and I think she’s getting tired of him. > > You really should give Chalion a try. It’s not like Miles at all. IMO the first (the Curse) is not only Bujold’s best book (and I’ve read them all), but my favorite book of all time. I reread it about once a year. The second is average for Bujold, which is pretty good. The third was the worst Bujold I’ve ever read, even worse than her last Miles book. Note that they are not a trilogy. Although it certainly helps to read the first before the second, they are stand-alone. Nothing can help the third. > > You might also try “The Spirit Ring,” a Bujold semi-fantasy set in Renaissance times. In fact, now that I’m reminded of it, I think I’ll read it again. With such a strong recommendation, yeah I’ll read The curse of Chalion 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2011, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-me-towards-some-good-trashy-fantasy-fiction/606723/60 "2011-12-24T13:02:50Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > You must have missed the line in the OP. I have read and loved the NOTW. It was the book that I recommended to people the most. I was a massive Rothfuss fanboy, going as far as to buy(for his worldbuilders charity) a 100$ signed copy of the humorous college articles he wrote. I was so convinced he could do no wrong. And then he went and published WMF. I have no words for how much that book disappointed me. Page after page of Rothfuss’ beautiful writing all squandered in one of the most horrifically plotted, least story advancing 1000+ page tomes that it has ever been my misfortune to come across. I no longer even recommend NOTW because I have no idea what he’s going to do with the story, and no more faith that it’s going to be something good. > > With such a strong recommendation, yeah I’ll read The curse of Chalion 🙂 I didn’t miss it. I was pointing out that I don’t consider Rothfuss to be trashy. Sorry to intrude your thread - I won’t do so again. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-me-towards-some-good-trashy-fantasy-fiction/606723.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-me-towards-some-good-trashy-fantasy-fiction/606723.md?page=4)