# Point of diminishing returns for cold refrigeration? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 7, 2006, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-of-diminishing-returns-for-cold-refrigeration/355745 "2006-05-07T06:22:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![AnabolicDoberman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@AnabolicDoberman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnabolicDoberman)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2006, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-of-diminishing-returns-for-cold-refrigeration/355745/1 "2006-05-07T06:22:48Z")
I keep my fridge very cold. sometimes 2 liter drinks will even slush up. I noticed a long time ago that keeping the fridge this cold preserves things an unusally long time. For example, things that normally would get mold or expire like bread, cheese, or milk last damn near forever. I was wondering if indeed near freezing is the optimal temperature for preservation (other than freezing itself). Maybe someone has a chart that shows preservation rates at various temps? ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2006, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-of-diminishing-returns-for-cold-refrigeration/355745/2 "2006-05-07T06:54:21Z")
I don’t know a great deal about the topic but I do know that high value high quality foodstuffs are sometimes shipped overseas in reefer (refrigerated) containers at a temperature described as “chilled” which is defined as above freezing and below 2 degrees Celcius. At this temperature, high quality beef can be shipped from Australia to Europe (which takes IIRC 3 weeks or so) and still be fresh enough to attact premium prices when it gets there. Cherries likewise from here to Singapore. The idea as I understand it is that the colder the better, but of course if you go below freezing then quality is lost, so you are basically trying to keep the cargo _just_ above freezing. The container has a built in temperature logger, and the shipper often uses their own internal temperature logger placed amongst the cargo. If the records show that the temperature has gone even marginally above or below this two degree range, penis ensues. To give you an idea of the criticality, I once handled a claim for loss of value (to the tune of several hundred thousand dollars) because a particular cargo had allegedly, in transit, reached (IIRC) 3.2 degrees Celcius. I hope that helps. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2006, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-of-diminishing-returns-for-cold-refrigeration/355745/3 "2006-05-07T06:56:00Z")
Sorry, I didn’t notice you were a guest: I shouldn’t use board slang for guests. “Penis ensues” = “panic ensues”. ---
**Author:** ![AnabolicDoberman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@AnabolicDoberman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnabolicDoberman)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2006, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-of-diminishing-returns-for-cold-refrigeration/355745/4 "2006-05-07T06:59:53Z")
[QUOTE=Princhester] To give you an idea of the criticality, I once handled a claim for loss of value (to the tune of several hundred thousand dollars) because a particular cargo had allegedly, in transit, reached (IIRC) 3.2 degrees Celcius. [QUOTE] Wow, did that actually get paid? ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2006, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-of-diminishing-returns-for-cold-refrigeration/355745/5 "2006-05-07T08:58:46Z")
Generally speaking, the colder something is, the less spoilage is going to happen. Some things can’t handle freezing, though, because ice crystals damage their cellular structure. For those items, yes, to make it last as long as possible, you want it just barely warm enough to avoid ice. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2006, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-of-diminishing-returns-for-cold-refrigeration/355745/6 "2006-05-07T08:59:28Z")
I’m a lawyer, one of the parties was my client and while what I’ve told you so far is on the public record, the manner in which the matter was resolved is not. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Rogers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/958977/32.png) [@Buck\_Rogers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Rogers)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2006, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-of-diminishing-returns-for-cold-refrigeration/355745/7 "2006-05-07T23:43:29Z")
There is a specification that all refrigeration units are calibrated to. The specification was designed for “fitness for use”. Freezerz should be calibrated at 0-5 degrees F. Anything more is a waste of energy. The refrigerator / freezer was calibrated for practical use. A refrigerator was designed to slow down the growth of bacteria. A freezer was designed to stop growth of bacteria. We would freeze everything if we could, but some foods change dramatically when you freeze them lettuce, strawberries, milk and eggs are foods that are ruined when frozen. It would also be impractical to thaw the food every time you wanted to use it. Therefore, you want your refrigerator to be cold, but not so cold that it freezes things. The preferred temperature is between 33 and 38 degrees F. Higher temps then 38F then foods will spoil too quickly. The shelf life ending of a product in the refrigerator is ususally from bacteria. The shelf life ending of a product in the freezer is usually from freezer burns. ---
**Author:** ![flex727](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/258eb7/32.png) [@flex727](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flex727)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2006, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-of-diminishing-returns-for-cold-refrigeration/355745/8 "2006-05-08T01:48:24Z")
> [@Buck Rogers](#): > > We would freeze everything if we could, but some foods change dramatically when you freeze them lettuce, strawberries, milk and eggs are foods that are ruined when frozen. Lettuce and eggs I know not, but strawberries and milk ruined by freezing? Not likely, or strawberry ice cream would not be very popular. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2006, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-of-diminishing-returns-for-cold-refrigeration/355745/9 "2006-05-08T02:00:00Z")
I’m pretty sure that lettuce can handle at least a bit below freezing, since after the fall frosts, the lettuce is generally the last thing in the garden to survive. And I’ve been known to freeze milk, when I was going away on vacation and didn’t have a chance to finish the bottle. After thawing and thorough shaking, it was fine. Strawberries would probably lose a fair bit of texture (which you wouldn’t notice if you ate them still frozen, like in ice cream), but the flavor should still be there. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2006, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-of-diminishing-returns-for-cold-refrigeration/355745/10 "2006-05-08T02:29:35Z")
> [@flex727](#): > > Lettuce and eggs I know not, but strawberries and milk ruined by freezing? Not likely, or strawberry ice cream would not be very popular. Their texture as intact whole foods is ruined. A frozen strawberry turnes to mush when thawed. Here’s why. [How Freezing Affects Food](http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/pdffiles/HE/HE38400.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![flex727](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/258eb7/32.png) [@flex727](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flex727)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2006, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-of-diminishing-returns-for-cold-refrigeration/355745/11 "2006-05-08T11:16:49Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Their texture as intact whole foods is ruined. A frozen strawberry turnes to mush when thawed. Here’s why. > [How Freezing Affects Food](http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/pdffiles/HE/HE38400.pdf) I don’t think any food survives freezing without some form of degradation, but a frozen strawberry is not _ruined_. Check your grocery store - fozen stawberries galore in the freezer section. Not as good as fresh, but certainly not ruined. ---
**Author:** ![slaphead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@slaphead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slaphead)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2006, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-of-diminishing-returns-for-cold-refrigeration/355745/12 "2006-05-08T13:21:13Z")
> [@flex727](#): > > I don’t think any food survives freezing without some form of degradation, but a frozen strawberry is not _ruined_. Check your grocery store - fozen stawberries galore in the freezer section. Not as good as fresh, but certainly not ruined. Commercial flash-freezing can give somewhat different results than doemstic freezing. In general soft fruits when home-frozen tend to go mushy, whereas if they were dunked in liquid N2 and thawed they would probably be pretty OK. And frozen strawberries? Never even heard of them in any supermarket in the UK, but then I don’t really pay much attention to anything other than a rapid escape… ---
**Author:** ![gazpacho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6f9a4e/32.png) [@gazpacho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gazpacho)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2006, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-of-diminishing-returns-for-cold-refrigeration/355745/13 "2006-05-08T14:45:08Z")
> [@flex727](#): > > I don’t think any food survives freezing without some form of degradation, but a frozen strawberry is not _ruined_. Check your grocery store - frozen strawberries galore in the freezer section. Not as good as fresh, but certainly not ruined. A frozen strawberry really cannot be used interchangeably with a fresh one. But things like chicken can be used with little loss of quality between frozen and fresh.