# Point of Order-Hate Speech in the Pit **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 5, 2005, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-of-order-hate-speech-in-the-pit/311150 "2005-07-05T16:50:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2005, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-of-order-hate-speech-in-the-pit/311150/41 "2005-07-05T17:36:18Z")
> [@fruitbat](#): > > Does everyone find trailer trash to be equally offensive? Or is it the white part that gets under your skin. Maybe I am baffled because I hardly think white is the meat of the insult here and that trailer trash is exactly equivalent to white trash. In both of the posts I cited there was no reference to living in a trailer. **Inkleberry** ’s specifically was **not** about trailer park residents. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2005, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-of-order-hate-speech-in-the-pit/311150/42 "2005-07-05T17:37:12Z")
> [@holmes](#): > > The question is, if a “known” black doper, describes another black person as a nigger in a negative way; is that to be considered hate speech? What if the known black Doper calls a known white Doper “white trash”? ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2005, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-of-order-hate-speech-in-the-pit/311150/43 "2005-07-05T17:37:29Z")
> [@Binarydrone](#): > > It’s like this: Like it or not, there is a huge advantage to being white in this country. I don’t make the facts, I just report them. Given that, when you look at Economically Disadvantaged Cultural Capital Challenged People of Trailer of Western European Decent® in the context of the Rugged Individual Value System© that is so common in this country, it is not difficult to see why this group is singled out for contempt. They started life on third base, and still managed to fuck it up. > > Also, I have to say; there is something just inherently contemptible and hilarious about the antics of the aforementioned group. You fucking racist. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2005, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-of-order-hate-speech-in-the-pit/311150/44 "2005-07-05T17:38:13Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > The preferred term is “muds”, which is a very inclusive term, meaning anyone non-white. The problem arises when you try to get 3 or more of them to agree on what “white” means. That, or the Stormfront people hates multi-player computer gamers or are in league with Voldemort. ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2005, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-of-order-hate-speech-in-the-pit/311150/45 "2005-07-05T17:38:57Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > You fucking racist. Please elaborate. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2005, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-of-order-hate-speech-in-the-pit/311150/46 "2005-07-05T17:39:46Z")
To my mind, trash comes in all colors. IMO, “white trash” is a perjorative aimed at a class of people OR at a behavior–I have used the term to describe non-whites (not here, but in RL). It means an attitude or erm, an approach to life that has at its base ignorance, narrowmindedness and vulgarity, not to mention bigotry, ethnocentrism and xenophobia. but maybe that’s my own defintion. ---
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2005, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-of-order-hate-speech-in-the-pit/311150/47 "2005-07-05T17:41:08Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > What if the known black Doper calls a known white Doper “white trash”? It’s banning time. ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2005, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-of-order-hate-speech-in-the-pit/311150/48 "2005-07-05T17:41:27Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Yeah, those sixth generation welfare hicks living in hovels without electricity or plumbing in the mountains of Kentucky sure had all the breaks, and blew it. This is not to say that you don’t have a point. I have always seen these issues more as class and economic issues rather than racial issues. All that I was doing was trying to offer some explanation as to why society at large heaps contempt on that particular group. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2005, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-of-order-hate-speech-in-the-pit/311150/49 "2005-07-05T17:42:24Z")
> [@Binarydrone](#): > > Please elaborate. You have a identified a group of people\*\* by color\*\*, and characterized them **pejoratively** as a **group**. “Why look at them pickaninnies. They ain’t too bright but ain’t they got some antics. Hooee.” ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2005, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-of-order-hate-speech-in-the-pit/311150/50 "2005-07-05T17:44:55Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > You have a identified a group of people\*\* by color\*\*, and characterized them **pejoratively** as a **group** … Really? Where have I done that? On a side note: We are still on board with you being an oversensitive little douchebag, right? ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2005, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-of-order-hate-speech-in-the-pit/311150/51 "2005-07-05T17:44:58Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > You have a identified a group of people\*\* by color\*\*, and characterized them **pejoratively** as a **group**. > > “Why look at them pickaninnies. They ain’t too bright but ain’t they got some antics. Hooee.” i think you should re-read **binarydrome** ’s post… ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2005, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-of-order-hate-speech-in-the-pit/311150/52 "2005-07-05T17:45:50Z")
Note of clarification: I never consider the term as a reference for the Appalachian poor-to me, it is a way to sum up quickly someone’s attitude or behavior that doesn’t jive with my own “culture”. Hey, to someone else, I’m probably white trash! Who knows? I just don’t take it that seriously. I see the point about fairness and maybe the term shouldn’t be used here–but I also think that language police are too quick to find fault and look for hurts. I hope we don’t go down that road. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2005, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-of-order-hate-speech-in-the-pit/311150/53 "2005-07-05T17:50:22Z")
> [@Binarydrone](#): > > Really? Where have I done that? > > On a side note: We are still on board with you being an oversensitive little douchebag, right? Here > [@binarydrome](#): > > Also, I have to say; there is something just inherently contemptible and hilarious about the antics of the aforementioned group. On a side note, when were we on board with me being a douchebag? ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2005, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-of-order-hate-speech-in-the-pit/311150/54 "2005-07-05T17:51:56Z")
Contrapuntal, To even further elaborate: The post that you quoted was nothing more than my understanding of why the term “white trash” is used at all. Granted, I did use sarcastic language but that is because I am getting pretty sick of the permanently offended. I am not sure if you can actually grasp how far things have been pushed for this to be true of me, as I am a died in the wool liberal and at one time actually valued being politically correct. But, the roving packs of sensitive souls just itching to feel righteous indignation have changed all of that. Your reaction, unless you are joking, is a perfect example of what has gone horribly, horribly wrong with the Left. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2005, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-of-order-hate-speech-in-the-pit/311150/55 "2005-07-05T17:54:12Z")
> [@Binarydrone](#): > > It’s like this: Like it or not, there is a huge advantage to being white in this country. I don’t make the facts, I just report them. Given that, when you look at Economically Disadvantaged Cultural Capital Challenged People of Trailer of Western European Decent® in the context of the Rugged Individual Value System© that is so common in this country, it is not difficult to see why this group is singled out for contempt. They started life on third base, and still managed to fuck it up. Now I think this actually _is_ racist. You assume, because they’re white, that they should be able to overcome the problems of the lower classes common to all racial groups: crushing poverty, a lack of education, little oppurtunity for economic advancement, unaffordable and unavailable healthcare, etc. Not to mention being raised in the lower classes will affect their speech and social mannerisms in a way that will make it harder for them to assimiliate with the middle classes should their economic status ever increase enough to make the leap. I think a white person born into poverty is going to be dealing with nearly all the same problems that a black person is–the only exception is that the white person won’t be dealing with anti-black racism. I think, in this day and age, that problem pales in comparison to the problems faced by both groups, and I’m not going to laugh at a poor person because they’re white, live in a trailer, and have a different culture then I do. It’s a class struggle, not a race struggle. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2005, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-of-order-hate-speech-in-the-pit/311150/56 "2005-07-05T17:58:18Z")
> [@Binarydrone](#): > > Contrapuntal, To even further elaborate: The post that you quoted was nothing more than my understanding of why the term “white trash” is used at all. Granted, I did use sarcastic language but that is because I am getting pretty sick of the permanently offended. I am not sure if you can actually grasp how far things have been pushed for this to be true of me, as I am a died in the wool liberal and at one time actually valued being politically correct. > > But, the roving packs of sensitive souls just itching to feel righteous indignation have changed all of that. Your reaction, unless you are joking, is a perfect example of what has gone horribly, horribly wrong with the Left. I am not on the Left. If white trash is not hate speech, then neither is stupid darky. If we are to have a rule about hate speech, then white trash qualifies. I am offended by what I see as inconsistent application of the rule. I have emailed mods to address this and was advised to open a pit thread. Again, the thread title states: Point of Order. ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2005, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-of-order-hate-speech-in-the-pit/311150/57 "2005-07-05T17:59:48Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > …On a side note, when were we on board with me being a douchebag? So, am I like one of those self-hating whites? Seriously? I might be willing to discuss the possibility that I have some class issues to work out (though I would need to have that conversation with someone smarter than you), but in this case to call me a racist is really sort of stupid. Re: the douche bag thing\*. I guess that I just assumed that your behavior and abject stupidity made it obvious. Also, you never answered my question as to why this whole issue seems to be such a big deal to you. \*No offence intended to the Douche Bag Americans™. I am referring to specific behavior, and do not intend disrespect to actual sentient feminine hygiene products who may be reading this post. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2005, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-of-order-hate-speech-in-the-pit/311150/58 "2005-07-05T18:02:46Z")
Just for the record, I disagree with Contrapuntal, for all the reasons stated already. On a different subject, I was under the impression the “Eurotrash” was a term used for all europeans, regardless of race or economic statis, who fall to demonstrate the quality know as “Class”. Is that correct? ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2005, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-of-order-hate-speech-in-the-pit/311150/59 "2005-07-05T18:08:12Z")
Metacom, Again, I am not assuming anything. I am simply stating what I see as the reason that poor white people are held in contempt. Nothing more. Now, it may be worth talking about if it is an actual advantage. Everything that I have seen indicates that it is. But I fail to see the racism in stating that, all things being equal, there is still an advantage to being white in this country. You will note that I stated earlier that I tend to view all of these issues more through the class and economic filter than through the race filter ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2005, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-of-order-hate-speech-in-the-pit/311150/60 "2005-07-05T18:09:28Z")
\*\*Binayrdrone \*\*was clearly exagerating by saying that anyone who is white is born on 3rd base. But, there is undoubtably an advantage, all other things being equal, to being white in America. Maybe the white guy is born on 1st base, or maybe the black guy steps up to the plate with a strike already on the board. However you want to characterize it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-of-order-hate-speech-in-the-pit/311150.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-of-order-hate-speech-in-the-pit/311150.md?page=4)