# Point out logic/plausibility flaws in classic movies and TV shows **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 27, 2014, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-out-logic-plausibility-flaws-in-classic-movies-and-tv-shows/679855 "2014-01-27T16:44:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![nevadaexile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb8c5e/32.png) [@nevadaexile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nevadaexile)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2014, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-out-logic-plausibility-flaws-in-classic-movies-and-tv-shows/679855/161 "2014-01-31T15:44:40Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > Agreed; kinda like my SW gripe, there’s a lot about the Alien’s universe (the structure of Earth’s government[s], their relationships with corporations like W-Y, what advances in sciences like planetology might make LV-426 prime real estate, etc) that we don’t know that might very well make certain “plot holes” non-issues. > > It’s been a long time since I read the novel, but IIRC, either Dallas, Kane, or Lambert turned off the alien ship’s distress beacon. So there’s no signal to warn potential colonists or other ships. But this is not supported on-screen, so did no one else ever pick up the alien ship’s distress signal? > > Let’s assume that, after the Nostromo was declared overdue, then missing, that the original Nostromo conspirators at W-Y wiped the computers to cover their back trail and wrote off the “Xenomorph Project” as too dangerous. They retire, then maybe die of old age, etc. > > In the mean time, the original LV-426 crash site is partially buried under a rock slide (supported by the extended edition/director’s cut), and missed on the planetary survey before the terraforming colony is established. It’s feasible the rock slide damaged the alien ship’s transmitter, and, since we don’t know when that rock slide occured, it’s feasible that the planetary survey didn’t see the ship and/or pick up the alien ship’s distress/warning signal > > Ripley shows up 5 decades later, with an incredible story. No one wants to believe her. After all, there’s no real evidence to back her up, and no one on LV-426 has seen a single hint of what she’s obviously raving about. But Burke, being the slimy weasel that he is, decides it’s worth a look. Instead of asking for/sending a fully equipped and trained Xeno-contact team, he sends a routine memo to have someone on LV-426 check out a set of coordinates. > > Hilarity ensues. > > The real problem is this: did no one on LV-426 send out a distress call when things started going pear-shaped? (After Newt’s dad came back with a face-hugger, torso’s started getting all 'splodey, nasty xeno’s are running around snatching people up, etc). > > If they did, is it feasible/plausible that Burke managed to quash that communique when it came into W-Y’s communication’s center? Did he pay off the duty techs in the Comm Center to ignore what they saw heard? Did they even see the message? Or did they just see the recipient’s name (Burke) and forward it without reading it? Would scared/panicked colonists send the message just to Burke’s attention, or do a “Send To ALL” distress message? > > Or did things go so bad so quick that no one on LV-426 got a message out at all? I would find this difficult to believe. > > The human portion of the Alien-verse does seem to be a partially dystopian, corporate-ruled-crap-sack, where corporate weasels are always trying to do stuff on the cheap, like sending “crew expendable” space-truckers to make first contact with a potentially hostile species. Or making military transports partially automated to cut down on crew costs/overhead. I didn’t mention the alien beacon as it is irrelevant. The size of the vessel would make it visible to anyone doing an aerial or an orbital survey. Again, it’s illogical to believe that they don’t do a detailed enough survey to determine that there isn’t a subterranean ocean or huge pockets of methane which might spoil their “terraforming party.” Or that they would have attempted to ascertain if there was LIFE on the moon. Even if the future of Alien is dystopian, genocide would still have to be seen as being a “bad thing.” if not, then why would have that pesky problem of Earth overpopulation? I have watched the film maybe a dozen times (I own it on DVD and I like Bill Paxton’s over the top performance) . Each time that I do watch I come away with a new complaint (like when Ripley tells them that they don’t need her to go and Gorman reiterates that fact on board the _Sulaco_ when they arrive). It’s a film that manages to disguises the myriad failures of its own internal logic with lots of action and Newt’s ear-piercing screams. Sometimes that works; sometimes it doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2014, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-out-logic-plausibility-flaws-in-classic-movies-and-tv-shows/679855/162 "2014-01-31T16:00:09Z")
> [@nevadaexile](#): > > I didn’t mention the alien beacon as it is irrelevant. **The size of the vessel would make it visible to anyone doing an aerial or an orbital survey.** Again, it’s illogical to believe that they don’t do a detailed enough survey to determine that there isn’t a subterranean ocean or huge pockets of methane which might spoil their “terraforming party.” Playing Devil’s Advocate here… Not sure on that one. As depicted in the first film, LV-426 was a hellhole with an atmosphere that was the next thing to opaque. Dust blowing everywhich way. The _Nostromo’s_ sensors had a hard time just finding a place to land. Now, an aerial survey might have better sensors (especially made decades after the Nostromo) but it could have missed the alien vessel. I doubt they were looking all _that_ hard for something like that. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2014, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-out-logic-plausibility-flaws-in-classic-movies-and-tv-shows/679855/163 "2014-01-31T16:01:19Z")
Speaking of\*\* Alien\*\*, how much time elapsed between the chest pop incident and the killing in the chains-hanging-down room? What did the alien eat in the meantime? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2014, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-out-logic-plausibility-flaws-in-classic-movies-and-tv-shows/679855/164 "2014-01-31T16:15:39Z")
> [@nevadaexile](#): > > Or that they would have attempted to ascertain if there was LIFE on the moon. Even if the future of Alien is dystopian, genocide would still have to be seen as being a “bad thing.” if not, then why would have that pesky problem of Earth overpopulation? Huh? Plenty of societies in the real world have distinguished between killing [Us Folks](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/443/why-are-there-so-many-names-for-germany-aka-deutschland-allemagne-etc) and killing [Those Frog-Faced Heathens](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/443/why-are-there-so-many-names-for-germany-aka-deutschland-allemagne-etc). ---
**Author:** ![nevadaexile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb8c5e/32.png) [@nevadaexile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nevadaexile)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2014, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-out-logic-plausibility-flaws-in-classic-movies-and-tv-shows/679855/165 "2014-01-31T16:20:21Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > Speaking of\*\* Alien\*\*, how much time elapsed between the chest pop incident and the killing in the chains-hanging-down room? What did the alien eat in the meantime? Yet another Alien universe Unaddressed Issue: What do Xenomorphs actually eat? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2014, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-out-logic-plausibility-flaws-in-classic-movies-and-tv-shows/679855/166 "2014-01-31T16:25:15Z")
> [@nevadaexile](#): > > You hardly be “saving money” if you attempt to terraform a moon with a supervolcano on it or a large mass of a naturally occurring, but unstable element. How would you find that out? Oh wait…you’d SURVEY THE ENTIRE MOON TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE WASN"T ANYTHING LIKE THAT THERE. Sure you’d save money, if something like that went wrong X% of the time, a thorough survey costs Y% of the losses you take when something does go wrong, and X \< Y. Yeah, people get killed now and then, but greedy amoral corp executives of the type we see in this universe would just mutter something about eggs and omelets. ---
**Author:** ![nevadaexile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb8c5e/32.png) [@nevadaexile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nevadaexile)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2014, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-out-logic-plausibility-flaws-in-classic-movies-and-tv-shows/679855/167 "2014-01-31T16:28:03Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Sure you’d save money, if something like that went wrong X% of the time, a thorough survey costs Y% of the losses you take when something does go wrong, and X \< Y. Yeah, people get killed now and then, but greedy amoral corp executives of the type we see in this universe would just mutter something about eggs and omelets. The “not killing people” part wouldn’t be the issue. Losing your terraforming equipment due to a massive explosion WOULD be. And everyone only wants to undertake projects that have high probabilities of success. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2014, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-out-logic-plausibility-flaws-in-classic-movies-and-tv-shows/679855/168 "2014-01-31T16:37:16Z")
> [@nevadaexile](#): > > The “not killing people” part wouldn’t be the issue. > Losing your terraforming equipment due to a massive explosion WOULD be. > And everyone only wants to undertake projects that have high probabilities of success. There _is_ a high probability of success. As long as the occasional failure costs less (in expected value, probability of loss times amount of loss) than proper surveying (lower cost per world, but has to be incurred 100% of the time), a greedy shortsighted megacorp is going to take the gamble because it’s cheaper in the long run. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2014, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-out-logic-plausibility-flaws-in-classic-movies-and-tv-shows/679855/169 "2014-01-31T16:40:34Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > By the way…why did Obi-Wan and Yoda go into hiding? Either one of them should have been able to kick Vader’s ass seven different ways with their eyes closed after Vader is stuck in his outfit. > > After that, you go after the Emperor. They went into hiding in “Revenge of the Sith.” This is a thread about classic movies, not really stupid ones. 🙂 In “Star Wars” and “The Empire Strikes Back,” conversely, it’s not at all clear Obi-Wan is more powerful than Vader, and there is nothing to suggest Yoda is in hiding at all. Yoda isn’t presented as a hiding ex-Jedi politician; he is a Zen master who lives on Dagobah because that’s where great Zen masters live, in isolation. He is uninterested in such mundane things light saber duels; “Wars not make one great.” He may well have been there for centuries, training Jedi sent to him from time to time. The prequels totally alter his character. Seriously, there are more plot holes than coherent plot in the prequels. You could fill a 500-post thread with glaring plot holes from those films. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2014, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-out-logic-plausibility-flaws-in-classic-movies-and-tv-shows/679855/170 "2014-01-31T16:54:06Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > In “Star Wars” and “The Empire Strikes Back,” conversely, it’s not at all clear Obi-Wan is more powerful than Vader, and there is nothing to suggest Yoda is in hiding at all. Yoda isn’t presented as a hiding ex-Jedi politician; he is a Zen master who lives on Dagobah because that’s where great Zen masters live, in isolation. He is uninterested in such mundane things light saber duels; “Wars not make one great.” He may well have been there for centuries, training Jedi sent to him from time to time. The prequels totally alter his character. But there’s nothing to suggest he’s not in hiding either. The prequels cause a lot of problems and create a lot of holes. This isn’t one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2014, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-out-logic-plausibility-flaws-in-classic-movies-and-tv-shows/679855/171 "2014-01-31T16:57:23Z")
> [@nevadaexile](#): > > I didn’t mention the alien beacon as it is irrelevant. The size of the vessel would make it visible to anyone doing an aerial or an orbital survey. Again, it’s illogical to believe that they don’t do a detailed enough survey to determine that there isn’t a subterranean ocean or huge pockets of methane which might spoil their “terraforming party.” A survey detailed enough to pick up things like that could still easily miss something as small as the alien space ship. Planets, even moons, are fucking big. Picking up something the size of a football field during a survey wold be extraordinarily unlikely, unless you knew where to look for it. > [@](#): > > Or that they would have attempted to ascertain if there was LIFE on the moon. Even if the future of Alien is dystopian, genocide would still have to be seen as being a “bad thing.” if not, then why would have that pesky problem of Earth overpopulation? I don’t think they’ve ever encountered intelligent aliens in this universe. There’s no indication of it in any of the movies - the line about Acturians not withstanding. And I don’t have a problem believing that a megacorp like W-Y doesn’t give a shit about harming non-sentient indigenous life. > [@](#): > > I have watched the film maybe a dozen times (I own it on DVD and I like Bill Paxton’s over the top performance) . Each time that I do watch I come away with a new complaint (like when Ripley tells them that they don’t need her to go and Gorman reiterates that fact on board the _Sulaco_ when they arrive). How is that a plot hole? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2014, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-out-logic-plausibility-flaws-in-classic-movies-and-tv-shows/679855/172 "2014-01-31T16:58:55Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > But there’s nothing to suggest he’s not in hiding either. The prequels cause a lot of problems and create a lot of holes. This isn’t one of them. My impression when I first saw the film was that Yoda was in hiding. IIRC, this was the view adopted by EU stuff even before the prequel trilogy. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2014, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-out-logic-plausibility-flaws-in-classic-movies-and-tv-shows/679855/173 "2014-01-31T17:50:39Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Or how NONE of the colonists thought to flee the station when it was clear that the Xenomorphs were taking over. > > Flee where? > > . One might think they have shuttles to go up to a small space station that was originally used for weather observation and or communication, or asteroid mining [for ice to turn into water and environment] or to go up to a freighter that is too large/fragile to land. In SF small space stations are frequently placed above new colony planets/mining planets to serve as ‘head offices’, warehouses [huge null-G storage spaces that don’t need to be all that sturdy structurally speaking, that allow freighters to drop off/pick up cargo without needing to land] or to serve as weather observation/control units. If I were ‘world building’ I would probably have a station to serve as a construction base/warehouse for equipment/freighter drop off/pick up and general office. There would probably be a small fleet of 4 or 5 cargo shuttles and one VIP/passenger shuttle. I would pre-stage all my construction units up in space and drop supplies and equipment down as needed, and when everything was finished, change to a commercial station where the colony would ship mined and finished ingots of product up for storage and transshipping, and freighters would drop off supplies for transshipping down. I would imagine there would be a fairly great savings in fuel to not have to haul stuff up and down a gravity well. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2014, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-out-logic-plausibility-flaws-in-classic-movies-and-tv-shows/679855/174 "2014-01-31T17:58:51Z")
[quote=“nevadaexile, post:159, topic:679855”] I’ll just hit the salient points: [li]It’s a moon, not a planet. Therefore its surface area is far smaller than a planet making it easier to survey. And that would have to be done by satellite, not by a spacecraft, unless they planned on a survey taking years. Also the gravity would be lower than Earth-normal because of its smaller size.[/li][/quote] Nonsense. Where did you read that a moon can’t be the size of Earth? Moon is a description of what a body is orbiting, not how large it is. And even if it were smaller, it might have a higher ratio of heavy metals composing it. And as for the survey, think about what they are doing. They aren’t looking for a crashed alien spacecraft. They are looking for indigenous life. You don’t have to do that by examining every square foot of the planet. You probably test its atmosphere, take samples of the water, and do overall assessments of the terrain. Not have some AI waste its time by going, “Nope. No crashed alien craft in this 10m X 10m square…” [quote] [li]Again…the colonists had no aircraft or spaceships. To get anywhere in a wheeled vehicle (even on a small moon) would take hours or days. The site obviously had to be close or they would have missed it. Or the story would have unfolded over the span of a t least a year, rather than the several months or so that it did.[/li][/quote] Maybe it took hours or days. All we know is that it took less time to return than it takes for a Xenomorph to chest-burst from a face-hugged man. [quote] [li]The satellite dish wasn’t that large. And why would there only be ONE? Is redundancy no longer a valid concept in the future?[/li][/quote] The hardware that controls the dish was damaged. There could easily have been other transmitters, but the one Bishop went to was the closest. That said, maybe the technology for a faster than light radio is fucking expensive, and a corner-cutting corporate site is worried about the bottom line. [quote] [li] The alien ship (actually the Space Jockey/Engineer’s ship) is shown to be the size of a football arena. Hardly small. And it’s in the open. It’s not hidden.[/li][/quote] It’s the same color as the landscape. I don’t think you appreciate how difficult it is to see stuff from orbit. > [@](#): > > [li] You hardly be “saving money” if you attempt to terraform a moon with a supervolcano on it or a large mass of a naturally occurring, but unstable element. How would you find that out? Oh wait…you’d SURVEY THE ENTIRE MOON TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE WASN"T ANYTHING LIKE THAT THERE.[/li] You have a cartoonish idea of what surveying is. Surveying for geological properties doesn’t involve looking at every square meter of the surface. It seems easy because you’re handwaving the difficult parts. The planet was barren. It had a crashed alien spacecraft on it. Hardly something that they would think to look for. You could search ten thousand planets and find zero crashed alien spacecraft. So why the everloving fuck would you require that the survey be of the intensity to find one? Your terraforming business model isn’t geared for profit. 😃 > [@](#): > > You may be easily entertained, but some of us expect them to work a little harder. I enjoyed the film the first time I saw it. But watching it again and using my brain, it really is a plot hole filled mess. You’re attempting to piss on a fantastic movie so you can appear above it. But in fact, your entire case is a result of you either not paying attention or just not understanding the concepts involved. As for being easily entertained, well I do waste my time before work on silliness like this. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2014, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-out-logic-plausibility-flaws-in-classic-movies-and-tv-shows/679855/175 "2014-01-31T18:07:18Z")
> [@nevadaexile](#): > > The “not killing people” part wouldn’t be the issue. > Losing your terraforming equipment due to a massive explosion WOULD be. > And everyone only wants to undertake projects that have high probabilities of success. To reiterate, if something will be a problem and some small percentage of the time will lead to a loss, you look at the cost of the loss, vs the solution and make a business decision. Your not understanding how a business makes decisions doesn’t make Aliens a bad film. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2014, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-out-logic-plausibility-flaws-in-classic-movies-and-tv-shows/679855/176 "2014-01-31T18:24:29Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > They didn’t go into hiding, the went into exile. Yoda and Obi-Wan thought they were the only two Jedi left in existence. Yoda went to sulk and be miserable for failing the galaxy and Obi-Wan went to Tatooine to protect Luke. > > Also remember that Yoda tried to take on the Emperor and got his ass kicked. And that was before the Emperor had built up a bunch of protections around him (which is what happens in the direct aftermath of Episode III). It took the might of an organized rebellion (and another Jedi or two) to topple them. See…my reasoning was based on what I think is the best aspect of RotS. The entire Jedi Order (Or most) has been wiped out except for two guys…and those two guys by themselves very nearly succeed in stopping years of tyranny! That’s how badass Jedis are. Yoda has no problem getting to the Emperor, in Part IV, Obi-Wan makes getting to the tractor beam look easy. They’ve removed a major asset by turning Anakin into a cyborg. Try again guys! ---
**Author:** ![nevadaexile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb8c5e/32.png) [@nevadaexile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nevadaexile)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2014, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-out-logic-plausibility-flaws-in-classic-movies-and-tv-shows/679855/177 "2014-01-31T18:30:42Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Nonsense. Where did you read that a moon can’t be the size of Earth? > > Moon is a description of what a body is orbiting, not how large it is. And even if it were smaller, it might have a higher ratio of heavy metals composing it. > > And as for the survey, think about what they are doing. They aren’t looking for a crashed alien spacecraft. They are looking for indigenous life. You don’t have to do that by examining every square foot of the planet. You probably test its atmosphere, take samples of the water, and do overall assessments of the terrain. Not have some AI waste its time by going, “Nope. No crashed alien craft in this 10m X 10m square…” > Maybe it took hours or days. All we know is that it took less time to return than it takes for a Xenomorph to chest-burst from a face-hugged man. > > The hardware that controls the dish was damaged. There could easily have been other transmitters, but the one Bishop went to was the closest. > > That said, maybe the technology for a faster than light radio is fucking expensive, and a corner-cutting corporate site is worried about the bottom line. > > It’s the same color as the landscape. I don’t think you appreciate how difficult it is to see stuff from orbit. > > You have a cartoonish idea of what surveying is. Surveying for geological properties doesn’t involve looking at every square meter of the surface. It seems easy because you’re handwaving the difficult parts. The planet was barren. It had a crashed alien spacecraft on it. Hardly something that they would think to look for. You could search ten thousand planets and find zero crashed alien spacecraft. So why the everloving fuck would you require that the survey be of the intensity to find one? Your terraforming business model isn’t geared for profit. 😃 > > You’re attempting to piss on a fantastic movie so you can appear above it. But in fact, your entire case is a result of you either not paying attention or just not understanding the concepts involved. > > As for being easily entertained, well I do waste my time before work on silliness like this. 😃 Really? I’m attempting to do what, again? The film is almost 30 years old and has more than earned the money back that it took to make it. My opinion will do nothing to ruin its “merits” to people who are fans of James Cameron or fans of the Alien franchise, I plot pointed several plot holes and you disagree with them. We don’t have to agree and you aren’t going to change my mind on what I see as being holes in the internal logic of the film. If you like it, then bully for you. I need more from my entertainment. Especially my sci fi. Perhaps you don’t. We’ll just have to disagree. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2014, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-out-logic-plausibility-flaws-in-classic-movies-and-tv-shows/679855/178 "2014-01-31T18:48:09Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > See…my reasoning was based on what I think is the best aspect of RotS. The entire Jedi Order (Or most) has been wiped out except for two guys…and those two guys by themselves very nearly succeed in stopping years of tyranny! That’s how badass Jedis are. Yoda has no problem getting to the Emperor, in Part IV, Obi-Wan makes getting to the tractor beam look easy. > > They’ve removed a major asset by turning Anakin into a cyborg. Try again guys! Isn’t there a built-in justification for this? _“Decide you must, how to serve them best. If you leave now, help them you could; but you would destroy all for which they have fought, and suffered.”_ Yoda’s presumably doing his see-the-future bit, and presumably getting a REPLY HAZY - TRY AGAIN followed by a MY REPLY IS NO. The way I figure it, Yoda and Obi-Wan spent two solid decades thinking, hey, look, as soon as The Force indicates that the time is right, we’re gonna swing right back into action; might be this week, maybe next month; any year now; aaany year now. ---
**Author:** ![nevadaexile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb8c5e/32.png) [@nevadaexile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nevadaexile)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2014, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-out-logic-plausibility-flaws-in-classic-movies-and-tv-shows/679855/179 "2014-01-31T18:51:06Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > To reiterate, if something will be a problem and some small percentage of the time will lead to a loss, you look at the cost of the loss, vs the solution and make a business decision. > > Your not understanding how a business makes decisions doesn’t make Aliens a bad film. Since I didn’t introduce an argument about the business decisions of the Aliens film (the film and the entire franchise actually avoid sensible business decisions as far as I can determine) you did, I’m really at a loss at how to argue your points for you. The reason that I introduced the aerial survey of the planet is to ascertain why on a relatively small astral body an alien ship (which according information introduced in the “prequel” Prometheus may not be the only one) was not discovered prior to the planet being terraformed. A character states that the colonists have been on the moon for years and have never discovered the Xenomorphs. That’s not something that I made up; it’s part of the screenplay. The film’s narrative is that W-Y, for reasons unexplained, constructed a massive terraforming reactor on a distant moon for reasons that are only supported by the plot, not by common sense or any “business” perspectives. In doing so, they were completely oblivious to the fact that life already existed on the planet, which is mistake so basic that it again could only exist to advance the plot. In the director’s cut of the film, the colonists are shown traveling to the Alien ship at Carter Burke’s direction ( whose coordinates they somehow received) and bringing Xenomorphs eggs back to their compound. Since this violates the “Quarantine” policies established as being the 'reason" for the rather byzantine plan in the first film, how these life forms escaped yet again also relies upon (yet again) the plot requiring it. The film then shows an incompetent group of military members then get housed by a life form for which they have no respect and still later has those incompetent members (well, the survivors that is) think that sealing themselves inside of a command center which has already been breached by those same Xenomorphs as being a sound strategic (or even tactical) battle plan. The film is a plot hole ridden mess. It relies on loud explosions, lots of shooting,smartass comments and a wailing little kid to cover up its rather convoluted logic processes. Some people like that as it makes the film seem cool; some people think an Etch-A-Sketch is amazing. We disagree on what we believe to be holes in the plot. We’ll just have to leave it at that ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2014, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-out-logic-plausibility-flaws-in-classic-movies-and-tv-shows/679855/180 "2014-01-31T19:37:51Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > Speaking of\*\* Alien\*\*, how much time elapsed between the chest pop incident and the killing in the chains-hanging-down room? What did the alien eat in the meantime? In the novelization (deleted scene?) the crew discover that the alien got into their supplies and ate all the food they had onboard. And for that matter the creature is supposed to be “biomechanical”- at least as much nanomachine as living cells. Maybe a large part of its body is metal or ceramic, which it could easily eat being able to secrete acid. Maybe it can tap into power lines and use electricity for its actual energy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-out-logic-plausibility-flaws-in-classic-movies-and-tv-shows/679855.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/point-out-logic-plausibility-flaws-in-classic-movies-and-tv-shows/679855.md?page=10)