# Points of etiquette only you, apparently, follow **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 23, 2004, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/points-of-etiquette-only-you-apparently-follow/251767 "2004-06-23T05:26:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2004, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/points-of-etiquette-only-you-apparently-follow/251767/61 "2004-06-24T04:38:13Z")
Forks are actually incredibly easy to manage. You start from the outside and work your way in. Knives proceed in the same way. The only exception is the oyster fork, a tiny piece of equipment that is nestled in the outermost spoon. The only way this rule can lead to you using the wrong fork is if the hosts have set the table incorrectly, in which case they are hardly in a position to criticize you. ---
**Author:** ![Rufus\_Xavier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eada6e/32.png) [@Rufus\_Xavier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rufus_Xavier)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2004, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/points-of-etiquette-only-you-apparently-follow/251767/62 "2004-06-24T04:39:24Z")
I gotta tell you, I was not raised by wolves, but the standards of: 1. personal hygiene 2. behaviour with friends and acquaintances 3. respect for elders 4. gender distinctions 5. public politeness that I grew up around in my family were less than…well, standard. In some cases, _much_ less. I’ve done a lot of growing up since then, and by now I have a passing familiarity with each of these points of ettiquete already mentioned, but there are many things I am just not good at. The ones relating to the opposite sex, like waiting for a woman to sit, opening the car door for her or walking on the right hand side were not only **not** encouraged in my upbringing, but derided by most of the adult females in my life as passe’ and often referred to as examples of how Man keeps Woman a second-class citizen. Luckily for me, my wife was raised somewhat more traditionally, and she helped me find the beauty in Being Polite, so I’m a lot better than I used to be; I am, however, a long way from being mistaken for Miss Manners, or even Mister Manners for that matter. Wanna shake my hand? 🙂 ;j 😛 ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2004, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/points-of-etiquette-only-you-apparently-follow/251767/63 "2004-06-24T05:15:09Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > Technically I guess it is still the rule though generally ignored…but then again I will refuse to shake hands with a guy who just sticks his hand out expecting it…makes car salesmen really uncomfortable=) I’ve never known of the handshake rule. Now I know why the older gentleman who came in my office today for business kind of looked at me uncomforatably until I outstretched my hand. :smack: > [@](#): > > What I hate is visiting relatives in California where the air kiss is the way of doing things. If I want to kiss someone I will, and it ISN’T a damned greeting unless you are related very closely or i am sleeping with you! I’ve lived in California all my life and I’ve never seen anyone do that. I’d have to disagree that it’s “the way of doing things” here. As for the walking on the outside of the sidewalk rule, I _love_ it when when men do this. It’s very impressive to me, shows that they were raised with some damn manners. Although I don’t get upset if they _don’t_, it’s not an obvious one, like holding the door open. ---
**Author:** ![Briny\_Deep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/briny_deep/32/17188_2.png) [@Briny\_Deep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Briny_Deep)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2004, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/points-of-etiquette-only-you-apparently-follow/251767/64 "2004-06-24T05:34:43Z")
Tipping the cashier? Around these parts, they’ll definitely let you know, by use or nonuse of a Tip Jar, otherwise known as a Karma Jar, College Fund Jar, Gimme Money Jar, or what-have-you. If you don’t see one, that means they don’t expect to be tipped. Like, say, at the drycleaners – the day I see a tip jar there is the day I learn to iron. Ladies having their car doors opened for them – it’s always nice to have one’s door opened, regardless of sex, isn’t it? Upon exiting the car, the woman gets to make the choice of whether she wants her door opened – if she opens the door before the gentleman gets around to the other side of the car, he can assume she wants to open her own doors. (And if a woman just sits there waiting for him to chauffeur her person out of the car, he may very well think she thinks she’s Queen Elizabeth! I think most women these days expect to open their own car doors, if not actually drive the car.) Giving the woman the better view in a restaurant? Heck, I do this with other men, if I’m trying to be nice to them. Who wants to be stuck facing the wall, or the bathroom door? ---
**Author:** ![dnooman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/839c29/32.png) [@dnooman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dnooman)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2004, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/points-of-etiquette-only-you-apparently-follow/251767/65 "2004-06-24T05:45:38Z")
I have to say, that if I were going somewhere with a female passenger and she just sat there waiting for me to open the door, I’d be a bit confused at first. Then I’d wonder what other sorts of pampering she expects from me. I’d probably be a bit put off by that. I treat women with the utmost respect, but I also don’t tip my hat, or toss my coat in puddles. We can walk around. Some things might just as well fade into obscurity. ---
**Author:** ![Idlewild](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8491ac/32.png) [@Idlewild](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idlewild)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2004, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/points-of-etiquette-only-you-apparently-follow/251767/66 "2004-06-24T11:57:25Z")
I am not fond of the ‘gentlemen walk on the outside’ rule, largely because a colleague verbally insisted on doing so, more or less demanding that I move so he could, which was quite obviously more impolite than had he simply let it go and walked on the inside. If it was done unobtrusively I wouldn’t mind, but I might be a little amused. It’s the part where it was made into a big fuss that was contrary to etiquette. I stand when I’m introduced to anyone, man or woman, and they and the introducer are already standing. It seems natural. I don’t mind if people apply gender specific etiquette to me as long as they don’t make a fuss if I should get to a door before them and hold it open, or such. I try to behave in the most courteous way that I can see regardless of the gender of the person who I am interacting with. I try not to be dogmatic, though I don’t like being treated differently because I’m a woman. I try to keep in mind that etiquette is making other people comfortable. Once on a bus, an elderly gentleman and I got to a free seat at the same time. Being well brought up, I tried to give him the seat. He was insistent that I sit. What I should have done was sit down as soon as he offered it - no-one wants to be made to feel old, and although he probably needed the seat more than I did, he was more comfortable letting a lady sit than taking it. I try to keep that incident in mind when dealing with people to whom the niceties of chivalry are obviously important (except louts like the colleague mentioned above. Forcing chivalry on people just isn’t done.) ---
**Author:** ![Algernon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Algernon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algernon)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2004, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/points-of-etiquette-only-you-apparently-follow/251767/67 "2004-06-24T12:41:10Z")
> [@Idlewild](#): > > I try not to be dogmatic, though I don’t like being treated differently because I’m a woman. I try to keep in mind that etiquette is making other people comfortable. Bravo. This is a terrific attitude. As was pointed out by **dnooman** , sometimes you’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t. If everyone had **Idlewild’s** perspective, this wouldn’t be so frustrating. Gender etiquette is not intended to be condescending behavior. On the contrary, in most cases it is a form of respect. ---
**Author:** ![Carnac\_the\_Magnificent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Carnac\_the\_Magnificent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carnac_the_Magnificent)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2004, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/points-of-etiquette-only-you-apparently-follow/251767/68 "2004-06-24T13:37:02Z")
> [@dnooman](#): > > I treat women with the utmost respect, but I also don’t tip my hat, or toss my coat in puddles. We can walk around. CAD!!! Take a lesson from me, my good fellow. Even in summer, I wear 15-20 coats whenever I’m on a date. To this very day, the shoes of these lovely ladies remain unblemished from mud or water stain. That said, I keep my stovepipe top hat at home. Doesn’t go with my Nehru jackets. ---
**Author:** ![Aholibah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Aholibah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aholibah)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2004, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/points-of-etiquette-only-you-apparently-follow/251767/69 "2004-06-24T15:04:09Z")
> [@bughunter](#): > > FOR MEN: HOW TO HELP A LADY DON HER COAT > > 1 - Get the coat before the lady does. Ideally, you and the coat should be ready before the woman is. Don’t wait so long that the lady has retrieved her own coat and hands it to you for help. > > 2 - After the lady stands to leave, grab the coat by the collar, at the shoulder seams, and open it. The back of the coat should be facing you. Hold the coat so that the hem does not drag the ground, and present the open coat to her so that your intention to help is clear. > > 3 - Let the lady turn her back to you. Allow her to decide which arm to put into its sleeve first. Lower the coat and _slide that sleeve over her hand_. If done right, the lady needs only to stick out her arm, as you will slide the coat onto it. (Hi, Opal!) > > 4 - Slide the coat up to her elbow, but do not slide it over her shoulder yet. Lower the other shoulder and help her find the other sleeve with her other hand. If she does not turn to find the coat with her other hand, then you should step around to assist her. Again, all she should have to do is put her second hand behind her and you place the sleeve over it. > > 5 - Pulling on the collar, lift the coat straight up, and place it lightly on her shoulders. If she has long hair, do not drop the coat on her hair, wait for her to lift her hair out from underneath the collar. > > 6 - Adjust her collar and if necessary, straighten the seams along her shoulders. If her coat has lapels, step around in front of her and adjust them, too. > > 7 - Brush any lint or dust off of her collar, especially if her coat has fur trim. Even if there is no lint, dust or other debris, spend a moment to adjust her collar and brush her off, just to show her she’s being cared for. Yowza – that’s some seriously erotic etiquette. I feel flushed. Pregnant wife or not, **bug** , I think I love you. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Devil_s_Grandmother)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2004, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/points-of-etiquette-only-you-apparently-follow/251767/70 "2004-06-24T17:41:54Z")
> [@Carnac the Magnificent!](#): > > What about opening the car door for a female? I open the door when we’re going somewhere, but not when we exit/alight from the car. The latter is a bit much, as if I’m hanging with Queen Elizabeth. 😉 When I’m driving I tend to open the locked passenger door first to let in my guest, then go around to my side of the car and get in. I’ve never had anyone (man or woman) wait for me to come around and open the door after we’ve arrived. Well, except on the occasions the passenger is covered with shopping bags and needs help sorting them before getting out. ---
**Author:** ![FordPrefect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@FordPrefect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordPrefect)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2004, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/points-of-etiquette-only-you-apparently-follow/251767/71 "2004-06-24T17:43:49Z")
[QUOTE=myrnajean] > [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > My mother trained me, when walking on a sidewalk with a lady (or any woman, for that matter) to walk on the street side. That is, to walk between the lady and the street. When we go around a corner, I step BEHIND the lady to again place myself between her and the traffic. > > You are not alone. Most of the men I have dated in my life have done that little dance while walking down the street. Maybe they were all old fashioned guys, but I like it. It took me a little while to get the hang of it at first (when I was a teenager), and its especially tricky if your holding hands, but it can be done. I do this too, but I wasn’t trained, I just like to look at a nice bum, and turning the corner is as good an opportunity as any. I also open the car door for my wife, although not as much as I used to when we dated, it was chivalrous, but more importantly, it allowed me, during the slow walk around to my door, to dispense, undetected, the internal pressure that had built up during dinner. Call it manners if you must, but most of the rules can be viewed as simply pragmatic. ---
**Author:** ![Winnie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e480ec/32.png) [@Winnie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winnie)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2004, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/points-of-etiquette-only-you-apparently-follow/251767/72 "2004-06-24T18:31:45Z")
I’ve never, ever heard the “don’t shake a woman’s hand” rule. I get pissed if a male shakes my husband’s hand and not mine, as if I’m the afterthought to him. The other thing that bothers me about male handshakes, though, is if I DO shake your hand, don’t shake it like you’re grabbing Mike Tyson’s hand! I swear some men grab you like they’re trying to see how many bones can be broken in a single handshake. And never shake too lightly or loosely. Wimpy handshakes are just gross. I have very strict dress codes about formal events and places. On the weekends you’ll rarely see me in anything other than cut-offs and flip flops, but special occasions and places are a different story. Some years ago I made a return to the Catholic Church in preparation for my wedding. When I was going regularly as a kid, I always had to wear something decent. Nothing dirty, no tennis shoes, no jeans, no shorts. The first time I went back as an adult, I saw people in sweatshirts and jeans! At MASS! I couldn’t bring myself to do the same, even though it was the middle of summer. I would also never show up at a wedding or a play/show dressed like that. I’m deeply offended when I see jeans and baseball caps at a show I’ve paid $150 to see. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2004, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/points-of-etiquette-only-you-apparently-follow/251767/73 "2004-06-24T18:36:42Z")
If I (as the driver) unlock and open the passenger door, I think the passenger has an obligation to lean over and unlock the driver’s door while I am walking around the car. ---
**Author:** ![bughunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/aeb1de/32.png) [@bughunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bughunter)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2004, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/points-of-etiquette-only-you-apparently-follow/251767/74 "2004-06-24T21:53:16Z")
Well, that one is becoming truly lost with the advent of remote car locks. But I’ve noticed that along with these conveniences, fewer males are opening the passenger doors for their female significant others. They just press a button on their key fob and expect the woman to have AIS before he has the car in gear and races out of the parking lot. I still open the door for my wife, and close it for her, before walking around to the drivers side. I have even become proficient for simultaneously doing the same for her mother in the back seat. (Hey, my MIL is charming. I lucked out _big time_. I like my MIL more than my wife does!) ---
**Author:** ![Algernon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Algernon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algernon)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2004, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/points-of-etiquette-only-you-apparently-follow/251767/75 "2004-06-24T21:59:57Z")
> [@Winnie](#): > > I have very strict dress codes about formal events and places. Good observation. I forgot about this. I was at a wedding a couple weeks ago, and there was a guy there in a golf shirt. Worse. A bright orange golf shirt! :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2004, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/points-of-etiquette-only-you-apparently-follow/251767/76 "2004-06-24T22:41:36Z")
> [@BiblioCat](#): > > When the elevator doors open, and you’re waiting to get ON, stand to one side and let the people already on it get OFF first. No one seems to understand that one at all. They just shove their way on as the exiting passengers are trying to get off. You’re not the only one who believes in this bit of behavioral etiquette. When I’m waiting for the elevator, I step aside as the doors open, eyeballing the interior to see if anybody’s trying to get out. Of course, then the person waiting behind me barges past to enter first. It’s gotten to the point that when I’m _exiting_ the elevator, I now step right up to the doors as they start to open, and if I find myself nose-to-nose with some mouthbreathing yak, I’ll just stand there and stare at them with that “ah, clearly a shaved ape” expression until they move aside. And sometimes even then they cram past me, sighing like _I’m_ the asshole. What_ever._ ---
**Author:** ![SolGrundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@SolGrundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SolGrundy)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2004, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/points-of-etiquette-only-you-apparently-follow/251767/77 "2004-06-24T23:08:26Z")
> [@FordPrefect](#): > > I also open the car door for my wife, although not as much as I used to when we dated, it was chivalrous, but more importantly, it allowed me, during the slow walk around to my door, to dispense, undetected, the internal pressure that had built up during dinner. :eek: You can do that in the time it takes you to walk from one side of a car to the other? And undetected?!? Damn! Oh, wait. You’re talking about farting, aren’t you? Never mind. ---
**Author:** ![dnooman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/839c29/32.png) [@dnooman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dnooman)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/points-of-etiquette-only-you-apparently-follow/251767/78 "2004-06-25T01:30:08Z")
> [@SolGrundy](#): > > :eek: You can do that in the time it takes you to walk from one side of a car to the other? And undetected?!? Damn! > > Oh, wait. You’re talking about farting, aren’t you? Never mind. There’s a commercial on [www.stupidvideos.com](http://www.stupidvideos.com) (I can’t remember the name at present) that’s freakin’ hilarious. Don’t read on if you want to see it yourself first. I’ll post the name and/or link if I can find it. The guy comes to her front door, she answers, and says something like “I can’t wait for the blind date”. He opens the passenger door for her, and while he’s walking around the car, she blasts a 40db fart. He gets in and says “So, this is Bob…” and points to the back seat where a previously undetected couple are seated. They introduce themselves, hilarity ensues. You kind of have to see it to get the full effect. ---
**Author:** ![dnooman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/839c29/32.png) [@dnooman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dnooman)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/points-of-etiquette-only-you-apparently-follow/251767/79 "2004-06-25T01:39:33Z")
Found it. Try [http://www.StupidVideos.com/?VideoID=16](http://www.StupidVideos.com/?VideoID=16) or just search for “Blind Date” it’s worth a watch. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2004, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/points-of-etiquette-only-you-apparently-follow/251767/80 "2004-06-25T12:28:53Z")
> [@bughunter](#): > > Hey, my MIL is charming. I lucked out _big time_. I like my MIL more than my wife does! My mother-in-law is fine. My wife’s mother-in-law is a royal pain in the ass! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/points-of-etiquette-only-you-apparently-follow/251767.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/points-of-etiquette-only-you-apparently-follow/251767.md?page=5)