# Pokerstars, Full Tilt and Absolute Poker Seized by Feds **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 15, 2011, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pokerstars-full-tilt-and-absolute-poker-seized-by-feds/578533 "2011-04-15T19:41:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Heropsychodreamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@Heropsychodreamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heropsychodreamer)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2011, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pokerstars-full-tilt-and-absolute-poker-seized-by-feds/578533/1 "2011-04-15T19:41:15Z")
> **[Poker Websites Targeted in Federal Crackdown](https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748704628404576265060852516194)** > > Eleven people, including the founders of three of the largest online poker companies doing business in the U.S., have been charged in the latest crack down on Internet gambling by U.S. authorities. I know there is a decent sized group of poker players here… ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2011, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pokerstars-full-tilt-and-absolute-poker-seized-by-feds/578533/2 "2011-04-15T19:52:34Z")
Holy fuck this seems like it’s the big one. ---
**Author:** ![BobArrgh](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobarrgh/32/2881_2.png) [@BobArrgh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobArrgh)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2011, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pokerstars-full-tilt-and-absolute-poker-seized-by-feds/578533/3 "2011-04-15T20:26:41Z")
> [@Heropsychodreamer](#): > > [http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704628404576265060852516194.html](http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704628404576265060852516194.html) > > I know there is a decent sized group of poker players here… Not any more. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2011, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pokerstars-full-tilt-and-absolute-poker-seized-by-feds/578533/4 "2011-04-15T20:59:36Z")
Yep, just to play a ring game. Access Denied. pfffffffffffffft. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2011, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pokerstars-full-tilt-and-absolute-poker-seized-by-feds/578533/5 "2011-04-15T22:46:31Z")
Didn’t see this thread when I posted mine. One question I have is: what is going to happen to everyone’s roll deposited with these sites, given that the DoJ is asking for money penalties (both civil and criminal)? Given that the press release states the Gov’t is looking for roughly $3B, I don’t think these companies or their officers have those kinds of assets to seize. And I don’t think the players’ deposits have the legal status of, say bank deposits. Assuming the corporations went bankrupt, wouldn’t the players only have an unsecured claim? And therefore be much lower in priority than the civil/criminal judgment’s claim? I read elsewhere that when the DoJ did this sort of thing to Party Poker and Netteller, that eventually people were able to get their money out, but I don’t have any personal experience to confirm this. I can see the Gov’t being silly enough to freeze the assets, and make the players sweat trying to withdraw their money, for quite some time. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2011, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pokerstars-full-tilt-and-absolute-poker-seized-by-feds/578533/6 "2011-04-15T23:36:17Z")
Yeah, people eventually got their Neteller money released, myself included. I would guess that \*probably \*something similar will happen here, but I don’t think it’s a lock, and god knows how long it will be tied up regardless. As awful as this is, it’s hard for me to be upset at the Justice Department. It seems very likely that PokerStars et al. were breaking U.S. law, and sooner or later the Feds were going to get around to stopping such a persistent and large scale offense. On the other hand, Bill Frist and other social conservatives can just suck a dick. ---
**Author:** ![Cyberhwk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7993a0/32.png) [@Cyberhwk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyberhwk)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2011, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pokerstars-full-tilt-and-absolute-poker-seized-by-feds/578533/7 "2011-04-15T23:57:08Z")
Hey, maybe I can actually get my $45 out of FullTilt now! ---
**Author:** ![Craneop2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Craneop2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Craneop2)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2011, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pokerstars-full-tilt-and-absolute-poker-seized-by-feds/578533/8 "2011-04-16T00:01:30Z")
I know how we can get online poker back. All we gotta do is figure out a way for the government to tax it! Since the govenment runs ALL aspects of lotteries and such they are OK. Even though they are purely a game of chance. Poker DOES seem to require a certain amount of skill. Therefore cannot be defined as a pure gambling. I dunno maybe I am just misguided. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2011, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pokerstars-full-tilt-and-absolute-poker-seized-by-feds/578533/9 "2011-04-16T01:03:39Z")
Well, there’s always “clubs” like [clubwpt.com](http://clubwpt.com), where you pay a monthly fee and get a certain amount of credits a day to enter tournaments. Until the stupid law can be changed, they’ve got the legal loophole figured out. I’d be interested in hearing feedback from any clubwpt (or similar) members that might be reading this. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2011, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pokerstars-full-tilt-and-absolute-poker-seized-by-feds/578533/10 "2011-04-16T01:05:42Z")
Motherfuckers. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2011, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pokerstars-full-tilt-and-absolute-poker-seized-by-feds/578533/11 "2011-04-16T01:05:54Z")
I wonder how much ‘illegal’ gambling happens in this country that is not taxed by the gov’t. bingo superbowl pools ncaa march madness bookies gambling on golf course (trust me, it is huge!) ‘true’ home poker games etc. etc. etc. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2011, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pokerstars-full-tilt-and-absolute-poker-seized-by-feds/578533/12 "2011-04-16T01:15:22Z")
FWIW: pokerstars dot **net** looks to be business as usual. pokerstars dot **com** website has a legal notice on the homepage. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2011, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pokerstars-full-tilt-and-absolute-poker-seized-by-feds/578533/13 "2011-04-16T02:48:56Z")
In related news, [online gambling is coming to Washington, DC](http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/DC-Texas-Hold-Em-With-a-Twist-119793934.html), but will supposedly keep out everyone not connecting from within the District. ---
**Author:** ![Turble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Turble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turble)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2011, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pokerstars-full-tilt-and-absolute-poker-seized-by-feds/578533/14 "2011-04-16T05:22:47Z")
My cash out request was processed. Part of the email – “The check will be issued by our payment processor, NOT by POKERSTARS.” But then, that’s what they got busted for. We’ll see, I guess. I did get my money when PartyPoker stopped letting Americans play. I’d say they have far too much to lose by stiffing us while the rest of the world can still play. Well, at least my local poker rooms stopped letting the college kids wear those stupid hoods. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2011, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pokerstars-full-tilt-and-absolute-poker-seized-by-feds/578533/15 "2011-04-16T20:50:54Z")
Yeah, I wouldn’t count on getting your money out any time soon, for the reason you mention. In fact, Stars and other sites had apparently been having problems with cashouts for a little bit before this – a lot of checks were bouncing or being reversed. Personally I’m not even going to try a withdrawal until we know what the deal is with that, for fear of its being stuck in some sort of financial limbo. Unlikely to make a difference, but still. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pokerstars-full-tilt-and-absolute-poker-seized-by-feds/578533/16 "2011-04-17T07:38:25Z")
You mean these companies are actually based in the U.S.? I always thought they’d be overseas, or at least in Nevada or some other place where gambling is legal. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pokerstars-full-tilt-and-absolute-poker-seized-by-feds/578533/17 "2011-04-17T07:53:28Z")
No, none are run from the US. The US can exert control over the .com top level domain, so they’re able to take over the sites’ .com names. Pokerstars has switched to pokerstars.eu for now, not sure how else they’re going to handle it. But more importantly, banks in the US transferring money to online gaming sites has been explicitly illegal since 2006, but they managed to get around that by working through various third parties. The US government didn’t seem particularly interested in enforcing the laws against those third parties until now. Those guys are within the reach of US law enforcement, and the banks they necesarily have to deal with are too. That’s the crushing blow here - the sites don’t have a way to take deposits or issue withdraws to US customers now. ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pokerstars-full-tilt-and-absolute-poker-seized-by-feds/578533/18 "2011-04-17T08:24:04Z")
What do you guy’s think of Full Tilt Poker dot net? ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pokerstars-full-tilt-and-absolute-poker-seized-by-feds/578533/19 "2011-04-17T13:04:23Z")
A title edit may be in order, as the companies themselves have not been seized? ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pokerstars-full-tilt-and-absolute-poker-seized-by-feds/578533/20 "2011-04-17T14:20:11Z")
> [@Indygrrl](#): > > What do you guy’s think of Full Tilt Poker dot net? The .net domains are fine, but are used only for play-money, not real money. The only legal (in the U.S.) online poker where you can play for real money that I’m aware of is [clubwpt.com](http://clubwpt.com) (or similar clubs), which I mentioned up-thread. There are still “creative” ways to play on the “banned” sites from the U.S., but handling any deposits and withdrawals would have to be similarly “creative” and could possibly get you into trouble. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pokerstars-full-tilt-and-absolute-poker-seized-by-feds/578533.md?page=2)