# Pokerstars, Full Tilt and Absolute Poker Seized by Feds

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pokerstars-full-tilt-and-absolute-poker-seized-by-feds/578533>\
**Category:** The Game Room\
**Created:** [April 15, 2011, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pokerstars-full-tilt-and-absolute-poker-seized-by-feds/578533 "2011-04-15T19:41:15Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 1\
**Showing post:** 38

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**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\
**Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pokerstars-full-tilt-and-absolute-poker-seized-by-feds/578533/38 "2011-04-20T15:53:23Z")

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> [@Online poker fucked by puritain DOJ retards](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/online-poker-fucked-by-puritain-doj-retards/578612/73):
>
> It’s a big part of the reason I hate playing online, it just bothers me philosophically. I’ve paid tens of thousands or more of online rake and the whole thing just strikes me as absurd. It makes me feel not at all sorry for these businesses because they’re a bunch of price-colluding assholes who’ve taken tens of thousand+ of my dollars (I mean I’m a net winner online, by far, but I’ve paid them absurd amounts to do it).
> 
> My concern is primarily that it’s going to be bad for poker in general. I play in casinos almost exclusively but now all of the displaced online grinders are going to need a place to keep earning their money, which may mean they come into my games, and they’re a hell of a lot tougher than the recreational players you aim for. And fewer people will get into poker now - there will be fewer poker shows with no online sponsors, fewer people that test the waters by learning online for small stakes and then decide to come to Vegas, etc. This is bad for the entire poker community, reducing the incoming amount of bad players and concentrating the good players.

(I wrote this response to your post in the Pit thread, and then realized it was more appropriate here so I just copied it before hitting submit.)

I agree with you about a high rake being terrible for poker in general, but for me this is why I find playing in live casinos/card rooms discouraging – if you’re playing limit, for example, the rake is usually a flat $4/hand plus a tip to the dealer, so $5-$6/hand. At any limit below $8-$16, this is a disaster. The house is sucking money out of the table so fast you need a steady influx of players to replace those who go broke.

And yeah, it’s crazy how much money online poker sites make for doing something incredibly simple. (Which is why I don’t believe any of the majors tamper with the odds/cards – why risk disrupting a river of money?) But as long as their brick and mortar counterparts are charging so much more, they have little incentive to charge less.

What I’m surprised by is that no one has started a site with a smaller rake. I’m guessing it’s because most casual players don’t realize how significant it is to their win rates so it’s not enough of a draw to suck a critical mass of people away from the major sites compared w. “I saw that one one the TEEVEE!” and “OMG deposit bonus!” The heaviest players would move over once you hit something like critical mass, but rakeback lets them pay a discounted rake, so you’d have to severely undercut the current rakes to attract them.

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