# Poland is the bare minimum of civilized living? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [June 11, 2011, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poland-is-the-bare-minimum-of-civilized-living/585087 "2011-06-11T06:09:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Chris\_Brandt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/73ab20/32.png) [@Chris\_Brandt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chris_Brandt)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2011, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poland-is-the-bare-minimum-of-civilized-living/585087/1 "2011-06-11T06:09:12Z")
Regarding the [article on alternative power](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/3000/followup-why-dont-we-ditch-nukes-em-and-em-coal), I’d love to know what country’s output would be the necessary average for today’s rate of 13.5 (or whatever it is). Why is Poland the minimum measurement? ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2011, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poland-is-the-bare-minimum-of-civilized-living/585087/2 "2011-06-11T06:33:12Z")
> [@Chris\_Brandt](#): > > Regarding the [article on alternative power](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/3000/followup-why-dont-we-ditch-nukes-em-and-em-coal), I’d love to know what country’s output would be the necessary average for today’s rate of 13.5 (or whatever it is). Why is Poland the minimum measurement? It just happens to have the projected consumption. Simple coincidence. ---
**Author:** ![Chris\_Brandt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/73ab20/32.png) [@Chris\_Brandt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chris_Brandt)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2011, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poland-is-the-bare-minimum-of-civilized-living/585087/3 "2011-06-11T22:39:06Z")
> [@naita](#): > > It just happens to have the projected consumption. Simple coincidence. Within the article, that number is actually referred to as the bare minimum…and your response doesn’t really address the key point of my question. So, I’d like to know what the “minimum” constitutes, because I’m wondering if 13.5 wouldn’t be so bad…that is, could we evenly distribute use of resources equally worldwide _today_ and still have a decent life. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2011, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poland-is-the-bare-minimum-of-civilized-living/585087/4 "2011-06-12T12:36:31Z")
Countries with about the energy consumption per capita 13.5 TW gives us when spread over 6.925 billion people. (61.5 GJ per capita per annum) Thailand Azerbaijan Philippines Mexico Serbia and Montenegro Jamaica Consumption figures from here: > **[List of countries by energy consumption per capita](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_energy_consumption_per_capita)** > > This is a list of countries by total energy consumption per capita. This is not the consumption of end-users but all energy needed as input to produce fuel and electricity for end-users. It is known as total primary energy supply (TPES), a term used to indicate the sum of production and imports subtracting exports and storage changes (see also Worldwide energy supply). > Numbers are from The World Bank - World Development Indicators. > The data are given in kilograms of oil equivalent per year, a... ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2011, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poland-is-the-bare-minimum-of-civilized-living/585087/5 "2011-06-12T12:42:08Z")
And I can’t find a reference to a bare minimum, Cecil writes “a modest standard of living”, and as far as I can tell the Nocera article just pulls projections out of a hat. The US standard of energy consumption world wide is impossible, Poland’s at less than a quarter of that is a projection of where the growth may realistically take us. ---
**Author:** ![Chris\_Brandt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/73ab20/32.png) [@Chris\_Brandt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chris_Brandt)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2011, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poland-is-the-bare-minimum-of-civilized-living/585087/6 "2011-06-12T23:32:58Z")
> [@naita](#): > > And I can’t find a reference to a bare minimum, Cecil writes “a modest standard of living”, and as far as I can tell the Nocera article just pulls projections out of a hat. The US standard of energy consumption world wide is impossible, Poland’s at less than a quarter of that is a projection of where the growth may realistically take us. Sorry. Of course you’re correct; my mind equates “modest standard of living” with bare minimum, as I wouldn’t want to live in less than a state of modest standards. And thanks for the country references. It confirms that I could maintain my modest standards at 13.5. 🙂