# Pole dancing--inherently sexual? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 19, 2017, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pole-dancing-inherently-sexual/777531 "2017-01-19T07:18:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2017, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pole-dancing-inherently-sexual/777531/21 "2017-01-19T16:33:51Z")
At the Peppermint Rhino or a similar high-profile club, the kind filled with professional “feature” exotic dancers and visiting porn stars, it’s a lot more like a Cirque du Soleil act, only nude, which I actually do not find erotic at all. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2017, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pole-dancing-inherently-sexual/777531/22 "2017-01-19T17:15:48Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Is not dancing itself a mating behaviour? You demonstrate by your grace, elegance, fitness, etc that you are a fit mate. Pity the poor clod with two left feet who can’t remember the steps. That’s what Coke and Porsches are for. ---
**Author:** ![sitchensis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sitchensis/32/4892_2.png) [@sitchensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sitchensis)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2017, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pole-dancing-inherently-sexual/777531/23 "2017-01-19T17:40:53Z")
Young girls doing athletic stuff on metal poles, rings, and bars was recess at my elementary school. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2017, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pole-dancing-inherently-sexual/777531/24 "2017-01-19T19:14:04Z")
If you opened up a bar and touted that leering men cold come in and watch scantily-clad hotties baking a cake, and the men watched them break the eggs and cheered and stuffed money in their bras, then “baking a cake” would be inherently sexual. Guilt by association. [spoiler] [Cooking Girl with Hot Cleavage 1 - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7ON3ZftU0c&index=3&list=PL1AE9178F9558B507) [/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2017, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pole-dancing-inherently-sexual/777531/25 "2017-01-19T19:15:03Z")
Being a human is inherently sexual. Not sure what the pole has to do with it, barring freudian interpretations of phalluses. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2017, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pole-dancing-inherently-sexual/777531/26 "2017-01-19T19:48:16Z")
Our local debate [Pole dancer enlivens Ocean City Boardwalk, riles many](http://www.delmarvanow.com/story/news/local/maryland/2014/08/13/ocean-city-dancer/14026751/) There are numerous studios all over the place that teach this as exercise and honestly, sexuality aside, it is fascinating to watch the acrobatics some women can do on these poles. Even in a T short and workout shorts some of the routines are amazing displays of female strength. I would wager than if any of the more dedicated Zumba mothers had a pole in their basement they would not stop their young daughters from copying Mommy, but they would have enough sense not to post it on social media. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2017, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pole-dancing-inherently-sexual/777531/27 "2017-01-19T19:52:50Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > That’s what Coke and Porsches are for. You probably meant “coke & Porsches”. Hotties aren’t that crazy about soda. Especially the non-diet kind. 🙂 > [@scudsucker](#): > > A former colleague of mine espoused that view when she signed up for pole dancing classes. > > I had my doubts when she admitted that the routine she was doing for her final “qualification” was to be done wearing 6 inch heels. Certain aspects of any art form are customary and proper form must be followed. You can’t ride fancy horses competitively (dressage) without wearing a silly hat. And you can’t fully execute the intricacies of the pole dance without 6" heels. It’s arbitrary. But it’s real. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2017, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pole-dancing-inherently-sexual/777531/28 "2017-01-19T20:22:15Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Is not dancing itself a mating behaviour? If it were, I wouldn’t have three kids. [sub]And, yes, I’m sure that at least one of them is really mine…[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2017, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pole-dancing-inherently-sexual/777531/29 "2017-01-19T21:06:22Z")
Every time I’ve commented on this subject here, I’ve ended up having to take a whole bunch of crap over it and have found myself being excoriated on a snark board. I’m fully prepared for that to happen here. I started taking pole dancing lessons at a dance studio 7 years ago. After a couple years, I was invited to teach and taught beginner & intermediate level pole for about two years. That studio closed, but I still pole to stay in shape. I lost 40 pounds and got ripped. It’s a full body workout that is perfectly balanced with cardio. The shoes are optional, but I maintain they help with climbing and certain foot holds. There are several styles of poling, stripper style, which is probably by definition inherently sexual. There’s artistic style, which I don’t think is any more sexual than pairs ice dancing or ice skating. (Torvill & Dean were pretty damn hot back in the day. It’s a wonder the ice didn’t melt!) There’s also pole fitness style, which is more like gymnastics than dancing. There’s not much in the way of body waves, hip circles, grinding/twerking, etc. in pole fitness. Mostly, pole fitness polers wear tank tops and booty shorts and no stripper shoes. I think the answer to the OP’s question is: it totally depends on if you’re watching or dancing and also what you project on to it. I’ve seen many kids in the pole rooms in studios and generally speaking, they think of the pole like another gymnastics apparatus or like a single vertical monkey bar. If I had kids, I would be teaching them all sorts of tricks because it would build upper body strength, core strength, flexibility, balance, stamina, etc. I can tell you that, when I’m trying to balance in an inverted position, holding my entire body weight above my head in a handstand position only by my arms, there is not a sexual thought in my head. I’m worrying about dropping myself on my head, I’m worried about my grip slipping, I’m worried about keeping my form correct and balanced, I’m thinking about what position my body is in and where I can go to next. Yet, I totally understand that certain viewers of pole dancing, regardless of the context (a class in a studio vs. a titty bar), cannot see anything other than whores on a pole. This is why I don’t post pix or video of myself online and it’s why I won’t perform in public. I won’t even perform privately in my own house unless it’s for an SO, or it’s just a bunch of my girls all practicing and helping each other, spotting tricks and such. I do it for me. Not for attention, not for money, but because it makes me physically strong and that makes me feel mentally strong. My self-esteem and body image issues have improved drastically – by orders of magnitude. Yet I am single (because old and bitter) because I don’t use the skills to go out and try to catch a dick. Pole dancing doesn’t define me, it’s not my only hobby, and to me, it’s not really all that sexual, although I want my flow and my lines to be aesthetically pleasing and that might be described as sexy. ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2017, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pole-dancing-inherently-sexual/777531/30 "2017-01-19T21:14:22Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > You probably meant “coke & Porsches”. Hotties aren’t that crazy about soda. Especially the non-diet kind. 🙂 > > Certain aspects of any art form are customary and proper form must be followed. > > You can’t ride fancy horses competitively (dressage) without wearing a silly hat. And you can’t fully execute the intricacies of the pole dance without 6" heels. > > It’s arbitrary. But it’s real. No, you can wear 5" heels. 😛 I used to give a speech like this to my students: The heels are designed to help. You wouldn’t try tap dancing without tap shoes and you wouldn’t dance ballet without ballet slippers or pointe shoes. Pole shoes are designed a little differently than say your average street stilletto. The heel is closer to the sole portion of the shoe, which gives you better balance. They are usually made of vinyl, which helps you stick when you’re climbing or using a foot hold. They’re heavy, so they help you pull a split nice and flat and they also act as a counterweight in spins, which helps you pull your body all the way around the pole in a spin. And I think they add an aesthetically pleasing curvy line to extend the leg. To me, it just looks nicer than bare feet. But there are certain tricks I won’t even try without the shoes because I need the vinyl to help me stick. (So I don’t drop myself on my head and die.) ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2017, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pole-dancing-inherently-sexual/777531/31 "2017-01-19T23:06:39Z")
> [@Dogzilla](#): > > Every time I’ve commented […] to be aesthetically pleasing and that might be described as sexy. ::mic drop:: ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pole-dancing-inherently-sexual/777531/32 "2017-01-20T00:01:03Z")
If you’re postmodern enough even sex isn’t inherently sexual. Somewhat related, years ago I was reading comments on a feminist blog where they were discussing how Western society conspires to sexualize young girls and reward male pleasing behavior. Someone said that if cheerleading didn’t exist, and some male coach somewhere taught a bunch of middle school aged girls to put on short dresses and go out and shake their hips and do backflips for the crowd, and his defense was it raised team spirit and it was great exercise, then there would be a national scandal and he’d be called a creepy pervert and fired. I thought that sounded about right. In this case, it seems the trick will be to get the mothers in on it. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pole-dancing-inherently-sexual/777531/33 "2017-01-20T01:34:28Z")
Just because I like to hang out on the corner at night in heels and stockings, walking up and down the street, don’t mean I’m hookin! It’s good excercise! I am greatly offended! ---
**Author:** ![Elemenopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b5e925/32.png) [@Elemenopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elemenopy)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pole-dancing-inherently-sexual/777531/34 "2017-01-20T07:29:44Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > If you’re postmodern enough even sex isn’t inherently sexual. > > Somewhat related, years ago I was reading comments on a feminist blog where they were discussing how Western society conspires to sexualize young girls and reward male pleasing behavior. Someone said that if cheerleading didn’t exist, and some male coach somewhere taught a bunch of middle school aged girls to put on short dresses and go out and shake their hips and do backflips for the crowd, and his defense was it raised team spirit and it was great exercise, then there would be a national scandal and he’d be called a creepy pervert and fired. I thought that sounded about right. In this case, it seems the trick will be to get the mothers in on it. While I’m not overly bothered by standard cheerleading, this is it in a nutshell. Great example. At the same time, I’ve watched cheer competitions where it’s just fantastic creative gymnastics, and I see nothing particularly prurient about it. I’m going to (barely) reserve my judgement about pole-dancing. I have demonstrated salsa and similar dances for fun with my kids, and they are inherently sensual, but I feel in a wholesome way. Pole-dancing does not quite earn that repute. Sorry… ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanub/32/132_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUB)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pole-dancing-inherently-sexual/777531/35 "2017-01-20T12:54:02Z")
> [@Dogzilla](#): > > Every time I’ve commented on this subject here, I’ve ended up having to take a whole bunch of crap over it and have found myself being excoriated on a snark board. I’m fully prepared for that to happen here. > > I started taking pole dancing lessons at a dance studio 7 years ago. After a couple years, I was invited to teach and taught beginner & intermediate level pole for about two years. That studio closed, but I still pole to stay in shape. > > I lost 40 pounds and got ripped. It’s a full body workout that is perfectly balanced with cardio. The shoes are optional, but I maintain they help with climbing and certain foot holds. > > There are several styles of poling, stripper style, which is probably by definition inherently sexual. There’s artistic style, which I don’t think is any more sexual than pairs ice dancing or ice skating. (Torvill & Dean were pretty damn hot back in the day. It’s a wonder the ice didn’t melt!) There’s also pole fitness style, which is more like gymnastics than dancing. There’s not much in the way of body waves, hip circles, grinding/twerking, etc. in pole fitness. Mostly, pole fitness polers wear tank tops and booty shorts and no stripper shoes. > > I think the answer to the OP’s question is: it totally depends on if you’re watching or dancing and also what you project on to it. I’ve seen many kids in the pole rooms in studios and generally speaking, they think of the pole like another gymnastics apparatus or like a single vertical monkey bar. If I had kids, I would be teaching them all sorts of tricks because it would build upper body strength, core strength, flexibility, balance, stamina, etc. I can tell you that, when I’m trying to balance in an inverted position, holding my entire body weight above my head in a handstand position only by my arms, there is not a sexual thought in my head. I’m worrying about dropping myself on my head, I’m worried about my grip slipping, I’m worried about keeping my form correct and balanced, I’m thinking about what position my body is in and where I can go to next. > > Yet, I totally understand that certain viewers of pole dancing, regardless of the context (a class in a studio vs. a titty bar), cannot see anything other than whores on a pole. This is why I don’t post pix or video of myself online and it’s why I won’t perform in public. I won’t even perform privately in my own house unless it’s for an SO, or it’s just a bunch of my girls all practicing and helping each other, spotting tricks and such. I do it for me. Not for attention, not for money, but because it makes me physically strong and that makes me feel mentally strong. My self-esteem and body image issues have improved drastically – by orders of magnitude. Yet I am single (because old and bitter) because I don’t use the skills to go out and try to catch a dick. Pole dancing doesn’t define me, it’s not my only hobby, and to me, it’s not really all that sexual, although I want my flow and my lines to be aesthetically pleasing and that might be described as sexy. This is very interesting; thanks for sharing 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pole-dancing-inherently-sexual/777531/36 "2017-01-20T14:09:26Z")
Beat me to it. Yes **Dogzilla** , thanks for injecting some first-person perspective into the convo. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pole-dancing-inherently-sexual/777531/37 "2017-01-20T14:23:42Z")
I was going to say, I didn’t see _anything_ that was snark worthy in **Dogzlla** ’s post. Sorry you got crap for it previously. Thank you for sharing. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pole-dancing-inherently-sexual/777531/38 "2017-01-20T15:03:49Z")
Another thing I was thinking about: When I first started poling, I had trouble understanding how hetero male viewers could not help but sexualize what I was doing. I’d have a perfectly respectful conversation with someone, and then get on the pole to show off a couple tricks and by the time my feet hit the floor again, Dude would be trying to put his hands on me – as if doing a handstand is an open invitation to sex. It was really annoying that guys seemed to stop seeing me as a whole person – that flew right out the window the minute I did some super bendy trick. Then I was watching the Olympics this one time and was super into the Men’s Gymnastics. I sat there on my couch wishing we could go back to the Ancient Greece days when the Olympics were naked. Yeeeaaaah, naked men’s gymnastics. That would really add some excitement to the pommel horse. LOL Then it hit me. These gymnasts weren’t doing a damn thing that was sexual. But I could not help but sexualize them. And then I got it. So I stopped performing in front of people (and don’t post pix or video anymore) because I think that means I am giving my consent to be sexualized and objectified. And I prefer to be in control of the choice as to whether I’m going to be sexualized/objectified. It’s one thing if I do it myself, but it’s a whole other kettle of fish when someone else objectifies me without my permission. Many pole dancers don’t mind at all. But I do, so I learned to keep it private. Anyway, I just wanted to say I understand why some people will still view this with a little skeptical side eye as a fitness regimen. ALL dance is a great fitness regimen. And all forms of dance can be sexy. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pole-dancing-inherently-sexual/777531/39 "2017-01-20T23:56:20Z")
> [@Dogzilla](#): > > No, you can wear 5" heels. 😛 > > I used to give a speech like this to my students: The heels are designed to help. You wouldn’t try tap dancing without tap shoes and you wouldn’t dance ballet without ballet slippers or pointe shoes. Pole shoes are designed a little differently than say your average street stilletto. The heel is closer to the sole portion of the shoe, which gives you better balance. They are usually made of vinyl, which helps you stick when you’re climbing or using a foot hold. They’re heavy, so they help you pull a split nice and flat and they also act as a counterweight in spins, which helps you pull your body all the way around the pole in a spin. And I think they add an aesthetically pleasing curvy line to extend the leg. To me, it just looks nicer than bare feet. But there are certain tricks I won’t even try without the shoes because I need the vinyl to help me stick. (So I don’t drop myself on my head and die.) I didn’t know this. It’s really interesting what one can learn here. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pole-dancing-inherently-sexual/777531/40 "2017-01-21T00:01:48Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > If you’re postmodern enough even sex isn’t inherently sexual. > > Somewhat related, years ago I was reading comments on a feminist blog where they were discussing how Western society conspires to sexualize young girls and reward male pleasing behavior. Someone said that if cheerleading didn’t exist, and some male coach somewhere taught a bunch of middle school aged girls to put on short dresses and go out and shake their hips and do backflips for the crowd, and his defense was it raised team spirit and it was great exercise, then there would be a national scandal and he’d be called a creepy pervert and fired. I thought that sounded about right. In this case, it seems the trick will be to get the mothers in on it. That sounds about right. Talking about the mothers specifically, I’ve watched snippets of _Dance Moms_ on YouTube, and it never fails to amaze me that some women are willing to put their daughters on exhibition like that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pole-dancing-inherently-sexual/777531.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pole-dancing-inherently-sexual/777531.md?page=3)