# Police and EMT's scuffle after police stop ambulance transporting patient (video) - who is at fault **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 31, 2009, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-and-emts-scuffle-after-police-stop-ambulance-transporting-patient-video-who-is-at-fault/498287 "2009-05-31T22:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-and-emts-scuffle-after-police-stop-ambulance-transporting-patient-video-who-is-at-fault/498287/21 "2009-06-01T08:33:29Z")
This shit infuriates me. Why in gods name would a cop even pull over an ambulance. Does no one even considered that enforcing a failure to yield is a pretty god damned trivial thing? Even if the ambulance were empty I’m not sure a cop should be wasting tax payer time and money to pull over an EMT. These guys are civil servants, a cop pulling an ambulance over for anything short of aggressively reckless driving is asinine. Is there no room for common sense? It reminds me of that asshole cop who pulled over the NFL player a few months ago as they were trying to get to his dying mother-in-laws bedside. Of course this piece of shit cop and his piece of shit CO will probably not even get slaps on the wrist. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-and-emts-scuffle-after-police-stop-ambulance-transporting-patient-video-who-is-at-fault/498287/22 "2009-06-01T12:09:01Z")
[This site](http://www.wusa9.com/news/columnist/blogs/2009/05/must-see-tv-ems-crew-member-and.html) seems to be a de facto clearinghouse of information and links on this incident. ---
**Author:** ![Krav\_Manga](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/krav_manga/32/3153_2.png) [@Krav\_Manga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krav_Manga)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-and-emts-scuffle-after-police-stop-ambulance-transporting-patient-video-who-is-at-fault/498287/23 "2009-06-01T12:09:08Z")
Is Ving Rhames working as an EMT now? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-and-emts-scuffle-after-police-stop-ambulance-transporting-patient-video-who-is-at-fault/498287/24 "2009-06-01T12:16:14Z")
I just found [an updated story](http://www.news9.com/global/story.asp?s=10434913), linked to on the statter911 page. > [@](#): > > OHP dash cameras recorded the first confrontation between the men. Prosecutors now have that tape, which they say shows Maurice White assaulting Trooper Martin. ---
**Author:** ![VunderBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/839c29/32.png) [@VunderBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VunderBob)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-and-emts-scuffle-after-police-stop-ambulance-transporting-patient-video-who-is-at-fault/498287/25 "2009-06-01T12:17:24Z")
I’m quite happy that I personally know all of the sheriff’s department and most of the highway patrol guys who have jurisdiction in my county. There’s one deputy capable of doing something like that, but deputies as a general rule don’t do traffic stops. That’s NCHP’s job… EMT-I ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-and-emts-scuffle-after-police-stop-ambulance-transporting-patient-video-who-is-at-fault/498287/26 "2009-06-01T15:25:34Z")
Note: One last very disturbing Fact. After we had arrived at Prague hospital, officer 606 told my partner, Paul Franks the he had determined in his mind to escalate to pulling his service revolver and using deadly force Yeah, because we all know how often police officers get shanked by a sharpened spork that those EMTs are world famous for. That officer has some serious anger, reasoning, and self control issues. Hell, even Cartman wouldnt react that badly. ---
**Author:** ![tr0psn4j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@tr0psn4j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tr0psn4j)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-and-emts-scuffle-after-police-stop-ambulance-transporting-patient-video-who-is-at-fault/498287/27 "2009-06-01T17:05:26Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The cop was not just wrong, he was out of control. If he draws his gun, all bets are off. Drawing his gun is more reason to listen to him. Most of us don’t have a gun or the super spy martial arts training to do anything about it. But the point was, if you listen to him, it would hopefully not escalate to that point. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-and-emts-scuffle-after-police-stop-ambulance-transporting-patient-video-who-is-at-fault/498287/28 "2009-06-01T17:13:33Z")
> [@tr0psn4j](#): > > Drawing his gun is more reason to listen to him . . . But the point was, if you listen to him, it would hopefully not escalate to that point. And that’s what America is all about. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-and-emts-scuffle-after-police-stop-ambulance-transporting-patient-video-who-is-at-fault/498287/29 "2009-06-01T17:19:07Z")
> [@tr0psn4j](#): > > Drawing his gun is more reason to listen to him. For the few minutes that the confrontation lasts, sure. It’s also pretty strong evidence that he’s in the wrong job and should have that gun taken away from him. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-and-emts-scuffle-after-police-stop-ambulance-transporting-patient-video-who-is-at-fault/498287/30 "2009-06-01T23:46:44Z")
> [@Enginerd](#): > > For the few minutes that the confrontation lasts, sure. It’s also pretty strong evidence that he’s in the wrong job and should have that gun taken away from him. And his badge. And maybe his freedom. It appears to be an egregious abuse of authority. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-and-emts-scuffle-after-police-stop-ambulance-transporting-patient-video-who-is-at-fault/498287/31 "2009-06-02T03:19:30Z")
> [@tr0psn4j](#): > > Drawing his gun is more reason to listen to him. Most of us don’t have a gun or the super spy martial arts training to do anything about it. But the point was, if you listen to him, it would hopefully not escalate to that point. You’re absolutely right but I’m not sure how I would react to someone grabbing my throat. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-and-emts-scuffle-after-police-stop-ambulance-transporting-patient-video-who-is-at-fault/498287/32 "2009-06-02T21:06:15Z")
I don’t know why it just dawned on me, why was the officer trying to arrest the attending? He wasn’t the driver. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-and-emts-scuffle-after-police-stop-ambulance-transporting-patient-video-who-is-at-fault/498287/33 "2009-06-02T21:24:46Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I just found [an updated story](http://www.news9.com/global/story.asp?s=10434913), linked to on the statter911 page. I bet that refers to the part in the YouTube video where the paramedic pulls his arm away from the trooper as he’s trying to cuff him. Police officers (and prosecutors) invariably refer to any sort of noncompliance against a police officer as “assault”. > [@](#): > > I don’t know why it just dawned on me, why was the officer trying to arrest the attending? He wasn’t the driver. Because the driver wasn’t black. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-and-emts-scuffle-after-police-stop-ambulance-transporting-patient-video-who-is-at-fault/498287/34 "2009-06-02T23:46:56Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I bet that refers to the part in the YouTube video where the paramedic pulls his arm away from the trooper as he’s trying to cuff him. Police officers (and prosecutors) invariably refer to any sort of noncompliance against a police officer as “assault”. > > Because the driver wasn’t black. In confrontations with the police, it is always the blacks fault. He was lucky the cop didn’t hurt him. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2009, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-and-emts-scuffle-after-police-stop-ambulance-transporting-patient-video-who-is-at-fault/498287/35 "2009-06-03T01:36:36Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Yeah, because we all know how often police officers get shanked by a sharpened spork that those EMTs are world famous for. > > That officer has some serious anger, reasoning, and self control issues. Hell, even Cartman wouldnt react that badly. Ex-EMT here, I probably would not have even stopped if I was transporting a patient. If he wants to go psycho on me at the hospital where if need be others can take over care, fine. If they even tried I would call my dispatcher and tell them to contact PD, it would take all of 15 seconds to have a PD dispatcher on the line to inform the officer I am A: transporting a patient, and B: will happily comply with any citation he might wish to issue at my destination. If he tries to do something royally stupid like force me off the road, I would comply but I would also have feild supervisor rolling on my location as I did and he better have a damn good reason for threatening my patient, writing me a ticket is not a damn good reason. Any cop is also going to understand that committing citable offenses could cost us our job just from a serious complaint by the officers even without citing us. Our dispatcher got a call from CHP dispatch one time that an aircraft had clocked one of our ambulances going 122mph, he got fired. Also, cops get hurt all the time. Usually cops love the EMS people because we are the ones who will save their ass when they wreck their cars, get their ass kicked and or get perforated by bullets/knives/sporks/whatever. Pulling this kind of stunt on EMS types is pretty much up there with kicking puppies. We don’t do this for the money or the power, you don’t get the sex appeal points the firemen do, so why even go there. ---
**Author:** ![simsimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58f4c7/32.png) [@simsimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simsimm)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-and-emts-scuffle-after-police-stop-ambulance-transporting-patient-video-who-is-at-fault/498287/36 "2009-06-16T02:20:29Z")
Its quite obvious that both of these individuals acted a little out of control. Had the paramedic simply cracked the door to the ambo and informed the officer they had a patient in the back, I am sure it never would have escalated to the point that it did. This is not to say that the officer did not act recklessly by a) pulling over an emergency vehicle and b) letting the situation escalate to the point that it did. It is quite obvious the officer could have followed the unit to the hospital and done any needed citations at that time, the officer was going to be out of service to write any tickets as it is. Clear situation of two individuals acting out of line and it having a synergistic effect. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-and-emts-scuffle-after-police-stop-ambulance-transporting-patient-video-who-is-at-fault/498287/37 "2009-06-16T02:49:58Z")
The police car’s [dash-cam video](http://www.prisonplanet.com/trooper-exposed-as-liar-in-attack-on-ambulance.html) does not reflect well on the cop’s behavior, nor on his ability to discern and tell the truth (ref. his claim that the EMT got out of the ambulance and assaulted him). While one might question the wisdom of arguing with a cop, especially a cop who seems to think that he and his viewpoint are all that matter, I don’t see that White did anything wrong, given the context of his duty to the patient. I don’t see that Martin did anything right except backing down from his earlier threats. ---
**Author:** ![Manduck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manduck/32/256_2.png) [@Manduck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manduck)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-and-emts-scuffle-after-police-stop-ambulance-transporting-patient-video-who-is-at-fault/498287/38 "2009-06-16T03:23:15Z")
That video also shows that the ambulance didn’t fail to yield, so there was no reason to pull him over in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-and-emts-scuffle-after-police-stop-ambulance-transporting-patient-video-who-is-at-fault/498287/39 "2009-06-16T05:34:09Z")
> [@Manduck](#): > > That video also shows that the ambulance didn’t fail to yield, so there was no reason to pull him over in the first place. The police cruiser had to move into another lane to go around the ambulance. The ambulance did not pull off of the road as we saw a passenger car in the video had done. The cruiser came up fast in the same lane, came very close, then overtook in the other lane and passed. While this is sufficient – there was a clear lane – some officers consider it a failure to yield if they’re the ones who have to move. I’m not sure that the law agrees. ---
**Author:** ![Manduck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manduck/32/256_2.png) [@Manduck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manduck)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-and-emts-scuffle-after-police-stop-ambulance-transporting-patient-video-who-is-at-fault/498287/40 "2009-06-16T09:46:39Z")
Yabbut, the ambulance couldn’t pull off the road until it had cleared that car. As soon as it did, it moved to the right. We couldn’t see how far right it went because the police car had already passed it by then (because it was tailgaiting). But the ambulance definitely moved to the right. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-and-emts-scuffle-after-police-stop-ambulance-transporting-patient-video-who-is-at-fault/498287.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-and-emts-scuffle-after-police-stop-ambulance-transporting-patient-video-who-is-at-fault/498287.md?page=3)