# Police Brutalize a Grieving Father in the ER **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 27, 2014, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-brutalize-a-grieving-father-in-the-er/699720 "2014-09-27T16:26:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-brutalize-a-grieving-father-in-the-er/699720/21 "2014-09-27T18:42:34Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Yes, I certainly am. That’s silly, but even so, tasering him when they didn’t need to taser him was wrong. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-brutalize-a-grieving-father-in-the-er/699720/22 "2014-09-27T20:17:49Z")
Tasering instead of shooting? That’s good. Tasering instead of physical control in a nonviolent situation? Not so good. Are you suggesting that if they didn’t have a taser at their disposal they would have shot him? ---
**Author:** ![JesterX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@JesterX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JesterX)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-brutalize-a-grieving-father-in-the-er/699720/23 "2014-09-27T20:48:53Z")
I used to work in a hospital. I never knew a grieving family member who wouldn’t back off to let their loved one get medical attention. It’s more likely the kid was dead at that point. So it raises the question what was the urgency that they had to tase the guy to get him off. Why couldn’t they just walk away altogether and leave him with his stepson? ---
**Author:** ![pendgwen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3da27b/32.png) [@pendgwen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pendgwen)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-brutalize-a-grieving-father-in-the-er/699720/24 "2014-09-27T21:08:17Z")
> [@Rushgeekgirl](#): > > So if there’s a sheet covering a patient that doesn’t mean they’re already past working on? Depends. How much of the patient is the sheet covering? A patient who comes in with a serious GSW will immediately have all their clothes cut off. Once you’ve determined where their injuries are you cover the rest of them with a sheet or blanket because trauma patients get hypothermic very easily. Now if the sheet is covering the entire body and is pulled up over the face then yeah, we’re probably done with any attempted resuscitation. You can’t tell from the linked video which one is the case. ---
**Author:** ![pendgwen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3da27b/32.png) [@pendgwen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pendgwen)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-brutalize-a-grieving-father-in-the-er/699720/25 "2014-09-27T21:21:45Z")
> [@JesterX](#): > > I used to work in a hospital. I never knew a grieving family member who wouldn’t back off to let their loved one get medical attention. It’s more likely the kid was dead at that point. So it raises the question what was the urgency that they had to tase the guy to get him off. Why couldn’t they just walk away altogether and leave him with his stepson? I’ve seen cases where family members were so caught up in their grief that they wouldn’t follow any instructions and had to be physically removed because they were hindering treatment. I’ve also seen 1 case where a man who turned out to be the father of a trauma victim came barging into restricted areas of the ED, wouldn’t stop to answer any questions about who he was or why he was there and got pepper sprayed by security. A taser seems rather extreme but I could envision rare circumstances where it would be justified. I’ll wait until a more complete video surfaces before passing judgement ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-brutalize-a-grieving-father-in-the-er/699720/26 "2014-09-27T21:32:40Z")
A man not moving to let his step son have treatment because in reality he really wants him to die would put an interesting twist on this story. Do we know who the shooter was? Is step dad a suspect? /Watches to much Discovery ID. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-brutalize-a-grieving-father-in-the-er/699720/27 "2014-09-27T21:37:31Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > At some point we’re going to end up at the point where the cops are expected to disable people with harsh language. That point is now you fucking imbecilic. I fully expect cops to talk to unarmed persons before stunning or shooting them. This is a bizarre concept in your world? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-brutalize-a-grieving-father-in-the-er/699720/28 "2014-09-27T22:09:48Z")
> [@Rushgeekgirl](#): > > So if there’s a sheet covering a patient that doesn’t mean they’re already past working on? Agreed. I’m a bit confused about the hospital’s claim that they were attempting to revive the young man. I’m always loathe to make a snap judgement based on a thin article and a short video, but it looks like the kid was already dead. Why drag him away at all, or at least not right away. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-brutalize-a-grieving-father-in-the-er/699720/29 "2014-09-27T22:27:18Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Breaking news: Police use physical force against man disobeying police instructions, internet acts outraged. > > Context to be provided eventually, which will disprove all the kneejerk reactions from the fuck-the-police crowd. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2014, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-brutalize-a-grieving-father-in-the-er/699720/30 "2014-09-28T00:26:39Z")
> [@GrumpyBunny](#): > > […and guess what colour the Taser-ee is?](http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2014/09/26/pittsburgh_police_er_taser_video_earl_baldwin_jr_shocked_in_er.html?wpsrc=fol_tw) So we have to do your work for you and read the article. Why couldn’t you give some context and explanation, along with your own opinions, and the reason(s) you posted this OP? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2014, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-brutalize-a-grieving-father-in-the-er/699720/31 "2014-09-28T00:39:06Z")
The issue is in dispute but apparently there are people saying that Grissom was still alive and the ER staff was still trying to treat him. The father became distraught and was interfering with the medical attempts. (As I said, this is in dispute. Other people are saying Grissom had been pronounced dead.) Now I don’t condone tasing in all situations but this is one situation where you need to get somebody out of the area immediately. You can’t waste minutes trying to reason with the father while the patient is dying. You get him out of the room. I’ll also note this incident happened in 2012. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2014, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-brutalize-a-grieving-father-in-the-er/699720/32 "2014-09-28T01:48:55Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So you’re saying they would have been criticized if they had dragged this man away by bodily force? Doubtful, unless they beat him too. You sound pretty unfeeling for the cops. I mean, you don’t want them to shoot, you don’t want them to tase, and now it sounds like you might be a little judgmental about a little beating. Next thing, you’ll be saying they can’t spit on people. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2014, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-brutalize-a-grieving-father-in-the-er/699720/33 "2014-09-28T06:12:47Z")
Y’all need to just put the bootlicking troll on ignore. He can’t be convinced, and is now actually watching for threads where he can insult people for having problems with police actions. Life is too short to argue with someone who cannot be convinced. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The issue is in dispute but apparently there are people saying that Grissom was still alive and the ER staff was still trying to treat him. The father became distraught and was interfering with the medical attempts. (As I said, this is in dispute. Other people are saying Grissom had been pronounced dead.) > > Now I don’t condone tasing in all situations but this is one situation where you need to get somebody out of the area immediately. You can’t waste minutes trying to reason with the father while the patient is dying. You get him out of the room. > > I’ll also note this incident happened in 2012. You’re making the same assumptions that everyone seems to want to make these days: It’s either tasing or talking. A taser is only supposed to be used when the choice is between tasing or shooting. A Taser is not a compliance device, but an alternative to lethal force. The only excuse in this situation is if the man was actually getting violent, which I admit is a distinct possibility, considering how hard he was fighting those cops. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2014, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-brutalize-a-grieving-father-in-the-er/699720/34 "2014-09-28T08:09:46Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Y’all need to just put the bootlicking troll on ignore. Since I’m not a troll, I’m not sure who you’re referring to here. > [@](#): > > You’re making the same assumptions that everyone seems to want to make these days: It’s either tasing or talking. A taser is only supposed to be used when the choice is between tasing or shooting. A Taser is not a compliance device, but an alternative to lethal force. > > The only excuse in this situation is if the man was actually getting violent, which I admit is a distinct possibility, considering how hard he was fighting those cops. So you agree that it was justified, then. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2014, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-brutalize-a-grieving-father-in-the-er/699720/35 "2014-09-28T12:14:27Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > A taser is only supposed to be used when the choice is between tasing or shooting. A Taser is not a compliance device, but an alternative to lethal foorce. A taser is not, and has never been an alternative to a gun. It’s an alternative to beating someone’s face in with a nightstick. Anyway, all of a cop’s weapons are ultimately compliance devices. If you refuse to stop doing something that is dangerous to others, they’ll use their gun to get you to stop, by shooting you until you’re lying down motionless. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2014, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-brutalize-a-grieving-father-in-the-er/699720/36 "2014-09-28T13:15:18Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > Even a broken clock is right twice a day. This was true until digital clocks and **Smapti** came along. > [@Smapti](#): > > Since I’m not a troll, I’m not sure who you’re referring to here. You are the proverbial feathered, quacking non-duck paddling its wet ass around a duck pond. It hardly matters whether you actually believe some or all of the vile and absurd things you repeat over and over in thread after thread; you know full well what the impact will be, and that it will always refocus the discussion on your ridiculous ideas and give you yet another chance at interminable back-and-forth with the same people over the same points, time after time, and end up nowhere, rinse, lather, repeat. It doesn’t matter whether you’re polluting the board just for the lulz or because you’re a deranged true believer. We’re all still neck deep in your sewage, regardless. You ARE a troll, even if you don’t know it. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2014, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-brutalize-a-grieving-father-in-the-er/699720/37 "2014-09-28T13:33:14Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Since I’m not a troll, I’m not sure who you’re referring to here. Given that the only two possibilities are “troll” and “idiot asshole,” troll actually makes you look better. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2014, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-brutalize-a-grieving-father-in-the-er/699720/38 "2014-09-28T14:18:59Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > A taser is not, and has never been an alternative to a gun. It’s an alternative to beating someone’s face in with a nightstick. > > Anyway, all of a cop’s weapons are ultimately compliance devices. If you refuse to stop doing something that is dangerous to others, they’ll use their gun to get you to stop, by shooting you until you’re lying down motionless. A cop that beats someone’s face in with a nightstick is either untrained in its use or a sadist. A taser is not a compliance device is exactly correct. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2014, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-brutalize-a-grieving-father-in-the-er/699720/39 "2014-09-28T14:47:37Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > A Taser is not a compliance device, but an alternative to lethal force. > [@Scumpup](#): > > A taser is not a compliance device is exactly correct. I fully agree that a Taser is not a compliance device. The question is, why is it so often used as one? I think the only answer can be training. Either a lack of training or plain bad training. The Washington Post article, linked to in the other thread, was a real eye opener. ETA: Here is a [link to the story](http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/09/26/a-sort-of-defense-of-south-carolina-state-trooper-sean-groubert/). ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2014, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-brutalize-a-grieving-father-in-the-er/699720/40 "2014-09-28T14:55:14Z")
So when we get the context and it becomes apparent that 5 police officers in a hospital did not just whip out their tasers for a good-ole yahoo on a random black man, but instead had to tase an erratic father who was interfering with medical procedures that could have saved his son’s life, will everyone here send a hand-written letter of apology to Smapti? I’m not holding my breath, and while I am loathe to side with Smapti on anything, the jump to conclusions here is alarming. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-brutalize-a-grieving-father-in-the-er/699720.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-brutalize-a-grieving-father-in-the-er/699720.md?page=3)