I wasnt talking about “owning” a gun, I was talking about “carrying” a gun.
Think what you will, but FYI, armed women are not raped. I cant even remember the last time an armed woman let herself be raped.
I believe it is YOU who are the “incredibly naive” one, if you have any thoughts that you are going to live if you try it.
If you think you will live to see the next day after being shot 5 or 6 times in the head and heart with a .357 magnum, I, for one, would call that incredibly naive.
It is just you. Many people run from the police for the stupidist reasons. Dont you ever watch Cops?
A child abduction in progress is a good reason to follow the criminal. On the other hand, if your child is abcuted, you dont want your child to die in an accident because the police made it a high speed chase. Who cares if the cops got back a dead daughter after having her killed in a high speed chase?
Hubby is also CCW licensed to carry, and trust me, will NEVER be car-jacked.
If someone is shooting at random people, then a police chase “is justified” - one of the very very few and very very rare situations. I doubt if we would have more than 1 or 2 of these in an entire year in the entire country.
I am NOT talking about a drive-by shooting of drug dealers killing each other!!! I dont care if they kill each other. YOur hypothetical situation was someone shooting at random people.
Forgive me if I sound cynical but doesn’t the prospect of having to call out a helicopter for every car that speeds away seem somewhat expensive and impractical?
It is just you. Many people run from the police for the stupidist reasons. Dont you ever watch Cops?
A child abduction in progress is a good reason to follow the criminal. On the other hand, if your child is abcuted, you dont want your child to die in an accident because the police made it a high speed chase. Who cares if the cops got back a dead daughter after having her killed in a high speed chase?
Hubby is also CCW licensed to carry, and trust me, will NEVER be car-jacked.
If someone is shooting at random people, then a police chase “is justified” - one of the very very few and very very rare situations. I doubt if we would have more than 1 or 2 of these in an entire year in the entire country.
I am NOT talking about a drive-by shooting of drug dealers killing each other!!! I dont care if they kill each other. YOur hypothetical situation was someone shooting at random people.
No one yet, execpt ME!!!, has specified which crimes it is ok for police to persue someone if it cost your own daughters life.
Everyone else afraid???
No one has any idea at all on this subject? You are all clueless?
Everyone has questions, but no one has any opinions!
Arent there any mothers on this board?
Arent there any men on this board?
You may think less of me in that I’m answering this and I don’t have children, but I would much rather put my safety and the safety of my fellow citizens in the hands of police and allow them to do their job by chasing criminals.
I don’t think that you can even look at this in terms of what would ‘justify’ the taking of a life. That’s a question you would have to ask the criminal that made the choice to run.
If I were were the mother of a child that was killed during such a chase, regardless of how trivial the initial reason for the chase, I know that all my anger and fury would fall squarely on the shoulders of the criminal for putting the safety of others on the line by running. Who’s to say that if the criminal is caught they won’t go on to kill someone anyways, if they haven’t already? You gain nothing by trying to make law enforcement responsible for the dangerous actions of others. The cops can no more control the behaviors and actions of criminals than anyone else can, if that worked there would be no more crime. The only thing we can do is give them the tools that they need to do their job.
Weighing this based on the triviality/depth of the crime committed is a fallacious argument, as that cannot be known until the criminal is caught anyways. All suspects must be considered extremely dangerous until proven otherwise.
My point being, any criminal that starts to outrun the police can be assumed to have absolutely no regard for human life anyways, otherwise they would not put so many in danger. Do you really want someone like that out on the streets any longer than necessary?
If your answer has to do with the length of time they will serve and if they can be convicted, that is something best left to deal with in the legislative arena.
Do you have ANY?? idea what your head and heart are going to look like after being shot multiple times with a .357?
(Sorry, I didnt mean you). This is supposed to read:
Do you have ANY?? idea what an attempted rapists head and heart are going to look like after being shot multiple times with a .357?
Exactly when are you planning on shooting your rapist Susanann? Before he overpowers you? What if he takes you by suprise? What if he takes your gun?
I’d also like to point out that as another woman that packs heat, I don’t let the fact that I’m armed blind me from the reality that I may someday find myself in a situation that my gun can’t save me from. A gun is a great deterrant, and definitely increases your chances when in a situation of self defence, but it is by no means an item that will magically shield you from harm, regardless of how good a shot you are.
There are many ways you might be incapacitated before you even know what’s happening, and even if you do manage to get a few rounds fired that’s no guarantee it will stop your attacker(s).
I think that owning and operating firearms comes with an increased responsibility of understanding your weaknesses and vulnerabilities as well as the advantage of self protection.
Susanann:
I apologize if you think I was trying to misquote you, as I wasn’t, though I may have been unclear in my use of mild hyperbole. You said:
Which means that you think chasing a criminal is never warranted UNLESS the criminal is a homicidal maniac. Is this an accurate portrayal of your belief? If not, please clarify.
Now, to answer your question about what crimes justify killing a child, perhaps nobody has answered because the question itself is misleading. A child is not killed every time the police chase somebody. It is an extremely rare occurance. Meanwhile, the police catching a dangerous criminal and putting him away is much more common.
So, is catching, say, a rapist worth the life of a five year old girl? Perhaps, it depends on what the rapist will do when he escapes, and how many women he will rape and/or kill. Generally speaking, on a one-for-one basis, I would say no. In fact, I would go so far as to say there are likely no normal crimes (not including things like the 9/11 tragedy) for which it is justified to take the life of a child. However, what if it’s the life of a child versus 10 rapists? Or 100? Or 1000? How many seriously dangerous criminals do you think will get away if the police have a “no chases unless the criminal is shooting at random people” policy? And how many people will become their victims? And how many of those victims will, themselves, be little girls? Do you see my point?
And as others have pointed out, while owning a gun will make you safer, it is far from insurance that you will never be the victim of a violent crime.
Jeff
Good for you! I love it every time I hear of another woman who carries.
Too bad all women do not carry, rapists would go extinct.
YOu are absolutely right!! The best idea is to not to be in a situation where you have to use a gun.
Just “carrying” a gun, and being trained in self-defense, are 2 different things. Every woman should be totally trained in Paxton Quigley’s self defense methods, including awareness training.
There is always a theoretical mathematical less than a 1% chance that just one shot to the eyes and one shot to the head will not totally kill him( I guess). The stopping power of just one shot from a .357 is 96%. Being shot twice, the odds are really against the rapist. Shooting accurately, increases the odds even more.
The infamous: Allieen Worunous, shot, stopped, and killed 9 out of 9 men with just a little .22 revolver.
I dont know of any woman anywhere, outside of war time, who stopped more attackers with any caliber.
My advice to you, from woman to woman, is to also carry a .32 derringer. I do as a backup. Small, light, even small enough to fit in a bra.
The answer is, no chase is justified in the case of rapists. The punishment if caught, if tried, if convicted, is too little(73 months) to endanger innocents.
I see your point, but you do not see mine.
My point is, that even if they do catch the guy, he is not put away forever. Most crimes are plea bargained, and then, as I pointed out twice, the punishments, even for a murderer(96 onths), are so little.
The police chase is but a temporary thing. Most criminals are paroled after serving some months in prison.
Innocent lives taken by police chases, are forever.
You fail to see my point that nearly everyone who gets caught, will again be on the street anyway, after serving 2 - 96 months in jail.
Several times you’ve separated “mothers” and “men”. I would like clarification on this. Are you saying that women who aren’t mothers would think differently? That men cannot have the same protectiveness about their own and others’ children? That one must have children to feel strongly about this issue?
As a young, female, unmarried, childless inhabitant of Los Angeles, car chase capital of the universe, I feel that chases are allowed to go on far too long. As soon as someone starts fleeing at high speed they are endangering innocents, and should be treated as potential murderers. But it’s easy for me to say things like that when I’ve just watched things like that on TV; maybe it’s different to the cops and suspects who are actually there.
Why would the length of jail time even be an issue when considering police chases? This should be a legislative issue, at least.
The fact is, though, I don’t see how you could even use the crime or length of punishment as a factor in this because at the time the decision to pursue has to be made, you’re operating blind. If you are the cop that tries to pull someone over who decides to run, then you have to assume the worst. You have to assume that the person being pursued is a dangerous threat to society, which, at this point, regardless of other crimes committed, he has become due to the simple fact of endangering lives by deciding to run.
If my child is killed in a police chase, I see it as another crime committed by the douchebag who decided to run.
Why keep the police from arresting what could possibly be someone who might go out and kill 5 or 10 more people if not caught?
I think that in this case, the possibility of future crimes must be weighed heavily.
Oh, I see your point, I just strongly disagree with it. You don’t think that maybe all those rapists, burglars, and other violent thugs are going to be committing fewer crimes while they’re locked up for 2-96 months?
Is an innocent life taken by a criminal who should be in prison somehow less “forever” than the innocent lives taken by police chases?
Jeff
Well spoken Susanann and XJETGIRLX for fighting ignorance. I would eventually like to see TheLadyLion get a CCW but she won’t be safer until she has much more training and experience. I also learned that one of the most important aspects of carrying a gun for defense is to avoid being in situations where you might need it. Keep up the good work and stay in condition yellow.
BTW I’d like so know some of your suggestions for a good carry gun for women. I know that what works for me is probably not the best choice for TheLadyLion.
I see your point, Susan. I just don’t agree with it. You strike me as only seeing the world in black and white. Is there a happy medium where the police are allowed to apprehend criminals with a minimized risk? Or is any risk too much?
I do agree that we have serious problems with our punishment system. But is the alternative not bothering to lock anyone up at all?
I find that the Rossi .38 Special has a good weight and grip, and is very solid. However, the kickback is something you need to get used to. It’s a double action revolver and it’s nice and shiny :
:
I’ve also got a Hi-Point CF 380. I like this one for target practice. It’s a little heavier, but it’s got a compensator that greatly reduces kickback. It’s a semi-automatic .380 magazine fed. I’ve got an 8 round and a 10 round clip. It’s also nice and shiny ::
I just wanted to point something out to you from the US Dept. of Justice crime reports for the year 1999:
There were 1,430,690 instances of violent crimes in the U.S. that year. This figure includes Murder and non-negligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault. The number of deaths attributed to murder and non-negligible manslaughter was 15,530.
A Michigan Daily News article from 1998 states that there were 300 ‘civilian’ deaths nationwide resulting from police chases.
Now, keep in mind these statistics don’t tell how many homicides or other violent crimes could have been prevented due to a police chase, but …
I don’t know what counts for nearly in your book, but I’d like to try to see someone explain to the family of one of those homicide victims why the police didn’t try harder to catch the killer before he slaughtered their beloved when the police had them almost right in the palm of their hand.
Oh, and Susanann? Could you be so kind as to join me here please?