# Police Deputy smashes into home, attacks family for flying flag upside down. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 30, 2007, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735 "2007-07-30T20:54:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/181 "2007-07-31T16:59:13Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Because he was the only one to deliberately smash a window with his fist. [/QUOTE] Where the Hell do you get that? His injuries are _completely_ consistent with Mr. Kuhn slamming the door on his arm and pressing down on the door. The deputy pulling his arm out of that are perfectly consistent with the “scrapes and cuts” referred to in the article. We just don’t know. My completely wild ass guess is that they’re both lying. The door was slammed on the deputies hand, causing injury. He then broke the window with a foreign object (probably a baton) to pursue the guy who just hurt his arm. Clusterfuck all the away around, but let’s not jump to conclusions. Let’s let the courts handle it. Or do you want to just say to hell with the courts, **Diogenes**? On preview: I’m about to give up. You’re just too damn stupid, **Diogenes**. Explain to me why, oh why, you think it is a good idea for a member of the executive branch to make decisions reserved for the judicial? ---
**Author:** ![Ivorybill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ee59a6/32.png) [@Ivorybill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ivorybill)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/182 "2007-07-31T17:00:45Z")
[hijack]Anyone else getting this as one of the ads at the bottom of the page? If so, am I the only one who finds it somewhat funny in the context of the thread?[/hijack] Troubled Teen Boys School Boarding for Defiant Teen Boys Academics, and Animal Training > **[TiptonAcademy.com is for sale | HugeDomains](https://www.hugedomains.com/domain_profile.cfm?d=tiptonacademy.com)** > > Add more credibility to your site - get a premium domain today. Straight-forward shopping experience. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/183 "2007-07-31T17:01:23Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] I’ve never actually seen the latter happen, [/quote] Really? Have you never seen the Rodney King tape? How about the one of that cop trying to yank the woman out of her car while she’s still wearing her seatbelt? > [@](#): > > but I have seen plenty of accidents like the one I described. The only unusual thing about it would be the cop’s hand being right where the window in the door was, but if the door was closed with even a modest amount of force, the glass is going to break before the cop’s hand gets pushed back. You must sure be use to some extremely fragile glass. Who knows - maybe this couple did have the world’s most fragile glass in the windows on their door. > [@](#): > > Especially if he’s got his arm extended far enough for his elbow to lock. Fucker’s got some long arms if he can reach in a window that’s at shoulder height to unlock the door. Perhaps this couple had a full pane window in their front door, though. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/184 "2007-07-31T17:05:22Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Even his claim that they refused to give him ID is now suspect. [/QUOTE] This would be a great point, except Deborah Kuhn herself said > [@](#): > > We said, ‘Why should we show you our ID — are you arresting us?’; so we walked back into the house and closed the door.” Honestly, if a deputy just showed you a statute, claiming that you violated it, locking yourself in your house when he asks for ID is not a clever move. Basically, it’s a move that’s going to guarantee a broken down door and a handcuffed trip to the station. Like it or not, when a police officer states that you’ve violated a currently valid statute, and intends to issue a citation, refusing to cooperate is going to do nothing but ensure the rest of your day is thoroughly ruined. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/185 "2007-07-31T17:06:25Z")
[QUOTE=A Monkey With a Gun] Where the Hell do you get that? His injuries are _completely_ consistent with Mr. Kuhn slamming the door on his arm and pressing down on the door. The deputy pulling his arm out of that are perfectly consistent with the “scrapes and cuts” referred to in the article. We just don’t know. [/quote] You’re not keeping up with the thread. WE DO know. Scroll up and read **Yojimbo’s** post. There is now a disinterested witness (an Ace Hardwood guy working nearby) who is directly contradicting the deputy’s story. I’ll post the relevant quote again: > [@](#): > > However, the Kuhns’ account is backed up by Jimmy Stevenson, who was working with Ace Hardwood Floors nearby and asserts that he saw Scarborough break down the door. > > “I saw that one cop [Scarborough] pull up and I saw those people come out on the porch and start talking to him,” Stevenson said. “They took their flag down, asked the officer to leave and closed the door. Then he started kicking the door, he kicked it about five or six good times, then he laid right into it. After he got done kicking it, he broke the window out – I saw him hit the window.” > [@](#): > > My completely wild ass guess is that they’re both lying. The door was slammed on the deputies hand, causing injury. He then broke the window with a foreign object (probably a baton) to pursue the guy who just hurt his arm. Clusterfuck all the away around, but let’s not jump to conclusions. Let’s let the courts handle it. Or do you want to just say to hell with the courts, **Diogenes**? > On preview: I’m about to give up. You’re just too damn stupid, **Diogenes**. Explain to me why, oh why, you think it is a good idea for a member of the executive branch to make decisions reserved for the judicial? Keep up with the fucking thread, asshole. You’re spouting off without knwoing all the facts. How do you explain the witness (someone unconnected to the Kuhns) who says he saw the deputy smash the window himselfd? Is he lying too? ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/186 "2007-07-31T17:07:22Z")
[QUOTE=A Monkey With a Gun] Where the Hell do you get that? His injuries are _completely_ consistent with Mr. Kuhn slamming the door on his arm and pressing down on the door. The deputy pulling his arm out of that are perfectly consistent with the “scrapes and cuts” referred to in the article. We just don’t know. [/QUOTE] > [@](#): > > However, the Kuhns’ account is backed up by Jimmy Stevenson, who was working with Ace Hardwood Floors nearby and asserts that he saw Scarborough break down the door. > > “I saw that one cop [Scarborough] pull up and I saw those people come out on the porch and start talking to him,” Stevenson said. “They took their flag down, asked the officer to leave and closed the door. Then he started kicking the door, he kicked it about five or six good times, then he laid right into it. After he got done kicking it, he broke the window out – I saw him hit the window.” [http://www.mountainx.com/news/2007/flagged\_down\_activists\_arrested\_in\_row\_over\_protest\_flag\_allege\_abuse\_by\_bu](http://www.mountainx.com/news/2007/flagged_down_activists_arrested_in_row_over_protest_flag_allege_abuse_by_bu) I don’t know who Jimmy Stevenson is but he seems from the story to be a independent third party backing up the couples story. The other independent witnesses in that story also seem to be siding with the couple when it comes to the point of the cops going OTT. What you got? ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/187 "2007-07-31T17:08:51Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] It is now beyond any credible dispute that a couple was assaulted by a deputy simply for expressing a political view which he didn’t like. [/QUOTE] Yup. Did they sentance those guilty-as-sin Duke lacross players yet? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/188 "2007-07-31T17:10:00Z")
[QUOTE=Cheesesteak] This would be a great point, except Deborah Kuhn herself said Honestly, if a deputy just showed you a statute, claiming that you violated it, locking yourself in your house when he asks for ID is not a clever move. Basically, it’s a move that’s going to guarantee a broken down door and a handcuffed trip to the station. Like it or not, when a police officer states that you’ve violated a currently valid statute, and intends to issue a citation, refusing to cooperate is going to do nothing but ensure the rest of your day is thoroughly ruined. [/QUOTE] It was not a valid statute and no, it does not give the deputy an excuse to break down the door and attack them. Moreover, if you think he would have been justified in breaking down their door and assaulting them because they wouldn’t give him their ID, then why did he lie about how he got into the house? Why did he lie about them slamming the door on his hand? Why should anything he says be taken at face value? ETA, you got me on your first paragraph. I didn’t know (or I had forgotten) that the Kuhns had corroborated that part of the story. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/189 "2007-07-31T17:11:31Z")
[QUOTE=kidchameleon] Yup. Did they sentance those guilty-as-sin Duke lacross players yet? [/QUOTE] You appear to be the one deciding that someone is guilty before they’ve been tried. The Kuhn’s are the only ones charged with any crimes. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/190 "2007-07-31T17:16:06Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Why should anything he says be taken at face value? [/QUOTE] My opinion is not based on a single thing he said, it’s based entirely on her account. Until the statute is ruled unconstitutional, or the legislature votes to remove it, it’s valid. There is no other way to decide which laws are valid and which are not. You of all people should be against the executive branch of government deciding on its own that a particular law shouldn’t be enforced. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/191 "2007-07-31T17:23:49Z")
[QUOTE=Cheesesteak] My opinion is not based on a single thing he said, it’s based entirely on her account. Until the statute is ruled unconstitutional, or the legislature votes to remove it, it’s valid. There is no other way to decide which laws are valid and which are not. You of all people should be against the executive branch of government deciding on its own that a particular law shouldn’t be enforced. [/QUOTE] For all practical purposes, the statute already HAS been ruled unconstutional. It has already been decided. The state has the discretion not to attempt to prosecute it and this appears to be the first time law enforcement has ever attempted to cite somebody for it. We’re all adults here. We can recognize selective enforcement when we see it, can wee not? Do you think anyone in NC would attempt to write GWB a citation for autographing a flag (something he’s actually done – that’s not hypothetical)? ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/192 "2007-07-31T17:33:37Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Keep up with the fucking thread, asshole. [/QUOTE] Allright, I’ll give you **yojimbo’s** post. I did miss that. (Although third party accounts… yada yada yada. we don’t really know…yada etc.) Again, it’s a clusterfuck all the way around. I’ve said that a few times in this thread, and by doing so I meant to imply that the deputy didn’t act exactly appropriately. It’s a side issue, though. I’m not trying to defend the deputy, per se, he may have abused his powers. I, and we, don’t know. What I am doing is refuting your bullshit arguments. One specifically: _Why_ should the deputy even _think_ about the constitutionality of the law before he enforces it? I’ve asked the question several times. I don’t think you can answer it because even _you_ know you’re wrong. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/193 "2007-07-31T17:35:56Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] For all practical purposes, the statute already HAS been ruled unconstutional. It has already been decided. [/QUOTE] No, no it has not. We got courts remember? What are they for? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/194 "2007-07-31T17:44:03Z")
> [@](#): > > “I saw that one cop [Scarborough] pull up and I saw those people come out on the porch and start talking to him,” Stevenson said. “They took their flag down, asked the officer to leave and closed the door. Then he started kicking the door, he kicked it about five or six good times, then he laid right into it. After he got done kicking it, he broke the window out – I saw him hit the window.” Hmm. So, **Miller** , what do you make of this? Seems a bit more like a cop losing his shit (e.g. trying to pull a woman out of the car while her seatbelt is still on), than a freak incident involving super-fragile glass and an iron fist. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/195 "2007-07-31T17:44:26Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] You appear to be the one deciding that someone is guilty before they’ve been tried. The Kuhn’s are the only ones charged with any crimes. [/QUOTE] Only to the fecal sloth with no reading comprehension. I merely think we should let the judicial process a bit more before jumping to conclusions. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/196 "2007-07-31T17:47:35Z")
Attention Lawyers: please tell me if this is right. If so,it might help clear some things up for **Dio.** Any law on the books is given the presumption of being valid. If it goes to to Scotus, they may deem it unconstitutional and thereby invalid. But that pertains to **that particular** statute. Since similar statutes in many states are **not** identical, Scotus’s invalidating a statue in State A does not automatically invalidate a similar statute in State B, C or D. Legislators in those states will look at the Scotus ruling and, based on how similar they think the statute is to their own, may choose to strike the law from the books. But until that step is taken, the law is 100% valid an enforceable. If someone is subsequently prosecuted after a Scotus invalidation of a similar law, those people can seek to have the law they were prosecuted under invalidated, as well, using the previous Scotus decision as a strong precedent. Is that right. If so, **Dio** , I hope that helps. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/197 "2007-07-31T17:48:18Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] No, moron, it’s a logical extreme of _assault_. I was trying to determine at what point a citizen is allowed to defend himself or his family from a physical _assault_ by a law enforcement officer. Where is the line between “resisting arrest” and justified self defense? It is my contention that the deputy who broke into that home and attacked that family was not just making an arrest but engaging in a felonious assault. Who knows what some unhinged psychopath with a gun is going to do once he’s in that house? They’re all just supposed to lay down and let him rape them and eat them or whatever else he wants to do? [/QUOTE] Stating the hypothetical as you did, you answered your own question. If an officer is beating your wife senseless or worse, raping her, you have not only the right, but the duty as a man and husband to put that fucker down. That’s the point, right there, where you’re allowed to defend yourself. You’re not allowed to “defend” against being taken into lawful custody, no matter how far down the use of force continuum the arrest travels. For instance; police are allowed to use batons, OC or tazers when a subject resists with only their hands. It’s for the safety of everyone involved. These people were not being physically arrested, more accurately, taken into custody, they were being held in place while the citation was being written, running away with your fingers in your ears and slamming the door on an officer (in this case specifically) not only won’t work, it’s stupid. As far as felonious assault; even THAT is a stretch. There’s no aggravating factor, no weapon involved that we know of (well, other than the door) and you can’t just evade lawful arrest because you think the cop MIGHT be a psychopath. Methinks you need to wander over to the orange pot for a little while. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/198 "2007-07-31T17:57:07Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] It was not a valid statute and no, it does not give the deputy an excuse to break down the door and attack them. [/quote] Actually, it does. You acknowledge that the statute is on the books of North Carolina. The deputy advises the couple he’s going to cite them for violation of that statute. At that point, they are being detained – non-custodial arrest, mind you. When they shut the door on the deputy, they commited the crime of resisting arrest. Now, you seem to be arguing that because the Supreme Court invalidated other, similar laws in other states, this particular statute is similarly infirm, and should be treated by everyone – cops, courts, public – as though it simply didn’t exist. That is not the rule, though. The fact that the Supreme Court has struck down similar laws in other states does not erase this law from the books. Legally speaking, it exists. It may be challenged, of course, by pointing out that the same rationale the Supreme Court used in _Texas v. Johnson_ applies equally well to this law. But that challenge is made to a judge, in response to a citation… not to a deputy sheriff. You also seem to hang your hat on how assholish the deputy is to enforce this, as though that has some value in determing how the law ought to work. This, too, is not the rule. You can imagine a cop pulling someone over for going one mile per hour over the speed limit. It’s never done, right? Yet you would agree, I hope, that the driver doesn’t have the legal right to slam his car door and refuse to accept the speeding ticket. In my view, the deputy is probably lying and the couple probably telling the truth. But even accepting every word the couple says as true, they resisted arrest. Now, it appears in North Carolina that a person is privileged to use force to resist an unlawful arrest. If this is the case, and I know nothing about North Carolina law to have an opinion one way or the other on the point, then it’s likely the couple can prevail on the charge of resisting arrest. But that, too, is an argument that must be made in court, as I’m almost certain that “unlawful arrest” will be an affirmative defense to the charge of resisting arrest – meaning that the burden to prove the unlawful arrest in this context will be on the couple. (I welcome correction on that point, of course). ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/199 "2007-07-31T17:57:07Z")
[QUOTE=A Monkey With a Gun] Allright, I’ll give you **yojimbo’s** post. I did miss that. (Although third party accounts… yada yada yada. we don’t really know…yada etc.) [/quote] What about third party accounts? Third party accounts are more reliable because they are disinterested. This flooring guy that was working nearby had no reason to lie and sounds like he’s pretty clear on what he saw. > [@](#): > > Again, it’s a clusterfuck all the way around. I’ve said that a few times in this thread, and by doing so I meant to imply that the deputy didn’t act exactly appropriately. It’s a side issue, though. I’m not trying to defend the deputy, per se, he may have abused his powers. I, and we, don’t know. What I am doing is refuting your bullshit arguments. Any time you want to start refuting something is fine with me. > [@](#): > > One specifically: _Why_ should the deputy even _think_ about the constitutionality of the law before he enforces it? I’ve asked the question several times. I don’t think you can answer it because even _you_ know you’re wrong. The answer to the question is that they do it all the time. They have the discretion not to bother trying to enforce obsolete laws. Law enforcement had _already_ been to this house and found nothing they thought they needed to cite. This deputy’s attempted citation appears like it might be the first attempt anyone’s ever made to enforce a statute that they all know has already been ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. The fact that the couple had already complied with removing the flag makes the selective citation even more transparent. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/200 "2007-07-31T17:58:16Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] Attention Lawyers: please tell me if this is right. If so,it might help clear some things up for **Dio.** Any law on the books is given the presumption of being valid. If it goes to to Scotus, they may deem it unconstitutional and thereby invalid. But that pertains to **that particular** statute. Since similar statutes in many states are **not** identical, Scotus’s invalidating a statue in State A does not automatically invalidate a similar statute in State B, C or D. Legislators in those states will look at the Scotus ruling and, based on how similar they think the statute is to their own, may choose to strike the law from the books. But until that step is taken, the law is 100% valid an enforceable. If someone is subsequently prosecuted after a Scotus invalidation of a similar law, those people can seek to have the law they were prosecuted under invalidated, as well, using the previous Scotus decision as a strong precedent. Is that right. If so, **Dio** , I hope that helps. [/QUOTE] Yes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735.md?page=11)