# Police Deputy smashes into home, attacks family for flying flag upside down. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 30, 2007, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735 "2007-07-30T20:54:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/261 "2007-07-31T20:32:27Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] In my dissolute youth, I once had a baliff come to a house I shared with some bandmates. The baliff was looking for one of my roommates who had a warrant out for skipping some court appearance (I don’t remember exactly what he was supposed to have been in court for. It was something minor. Parking tickets or something). As it happened, the baliff’s quarry was hiding upstairs in a closet. I told the baliff he wasn;t home. The baliff asked if he could search the house. I said not without a warrant. He gave me a message to give to my roommate (who he knew was in the house. We both knew I was full of shit) and left. Was I preventing him from doing his duty when I wouldn’t let him in the house? If this couple did not know they were technically under arrest when the deputy was on their doorstep and did not know they were legally obliged to provide him with ID, I don’t think it can be proven that they knew they were resisting arrest. [/QUOTE] Yes, but he didn’t break in because he wasn’t 1) chasing your friend and 2) he didn’t SEE him enter the structure. You WERE preventing him from the discharge of his duties, but he didn’t know that, or have reason to suspect. Your assertion that he “knew he was home” is predicated on the fact that you knew it and your assumption that the baliff did which may not have been true. It doesn’t matter in the eyes of the law if you know you’re under arrest or not. If you are given a lawful order by a peace officer in the execution of his duties and you do not heed that order, what you know or don’t know is hardly relevant at the time the order is issued, as long as you are obviously of sound mind (read: not obviously mentally challenged). Reasonable people do not refuse to be identified, and the law is not on the side of those who do. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/262 "2007-07-31T20:33:57Z")
Fuckin’ lazy cop! In the old days, he’d’ve burned the fuckin’ house with the fuckin’ hippies in it, burned it right to the ground and pissed on their charred bodies as they tried to crawl back to fuckin’ Russia! Is there no pride in doing a day’s work for a day’s pay any more? ---
**Author:** ![vetbridge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5e925/32.png) [@vetbridge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vetbridge)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/263 "2007-07-31T20:35:24Z")
Having just read 9 pages of this thread, just have to say, “wow”. **Dio** , I hope your wife is doing OK. 😉 [QUOTE=Mike McWilliams] The Kuhns each face a maximum **420** days in jail if convicted on all of the charges. [/QUOTE] (bolding added). What were the legislators smoking when they wrote the law? ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/264 "2007-07-31T20:35:50Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I think it would be a hell of a lot easier with glass. Can you offer any reasonable argument as to why he could NOT have gotten the injuries from punching through the glass? Plus we already KNOW he was lying about this. Somebody saw him. Continuing to defend him on this point is a waste of time. [/QUOTE] You misunderstand. I’m not defending the cop in his assertion of injury by the suspect. I believe that charge will likely be tossed too. I’m proving a point to **lowbrass** that you can indeed be injured by a wooden door, that it’s POSSIBLE, although not, as I said previously about this case, bloody likely. What hasn’t changed anywhere in this thread is the fact that the act of shutting the door was resisting, and therefore generally justifies the actions of the officer in putting foot to door. Period. Perhaps the cop’s a douche, but the law is on his side. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/265 "2007-07-31T20:40:24Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Do you really there’s much room for uncertainty or ambiguity about whether the witness knows he saw the officer kick the door several times and then smash the glass? If it was question of the glass being broken simultaneously or very close to the time that door was closed, I could see rooom for a mistake, but this guys says the glass didn’t get smashed until long after the door had been closed and the deputy had made several attempts to kick it open. If he said he saw them slam the door on his arm, I would just accept it. The deputy is busted on his door slam story. Why can’t we all just agree to that and move on. It’s not the only issue in the thread. [/QUOTE] I don’t know whether the witness is truly unbiased or what he really saw. So I’m not willing to jump to conclusions. I don’t necessarily believe the deputy either. I don’t think we’ve got enough evidence. I also don’t know if there are other witnesses with different stories. [QUOTE=Unauthorized Cinnamon] Moreover, you ignore the delicious irony of citing the Innocence Project to support the honesty, uprightness, and concern for justice of law enforcement officers. [/QUOTE] Sigh. I really don’t give a shit, frankly, but enjoy the irony if you like. Although, I think it’s misplaced. I didn’t really cite it for anything other than the fact that eyewitness testimony isn’t very reliable. Eyewitness evidence doesn’t get better or more reliable just because it favors my side. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/266 "2007-07-31T20:44:23Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Can you offer any reasonable argument as to why he could NOT have gotten the injuries from punching through the glass? [/QUOTE] Actually, yes I can. The glass used in windows, whether single paned or double, has a tendency to produce long fractures when broken. It’s not safety glass like in your car windows, it turns in to a bunch of small brittle knives. The movie thing where you see glass shatter is a myth. It’ll break, but it forms very, very jagged pieces. Do not ever, and I mean _ever_ try to punch through a glass window. It ain’t the movies. You _will_ need stitches. Plate glass is mean. The article says “scrapes and cuts”. It’s the scrapes that make me suspect it’s wood. You’re not going to get “scrapes and cuts” from throwing your fist through a plate glass window. You’re going to get gashes that need stitches. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/267 "2007-07-31T20:44:30Z")
[QUOTE=vetbridge] Having just read 9 pages of this thread, just have to say, “wow”. **Dio** , I hope your wife is doing OK. 😉 (bolding added). What were the legislators smoking when they wrote the law? [/QUOTE] The are charge with three separate misdemeanors. Are you thinking that there is one law that provides the punishment for all three? ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/268 "2007-07-31T20:48:43Z")
[QUOTE=A Monkey With a Gun] Actually, yes I can. The glass used in windows, whether single paned or double, has a tendency to produce long fractures when broken. It’s not safety glass like in your car windows, it turns in to a bunch of small brittle knives. The movie thing where you see glass shatter is a myth. It’ll break, but it forms very, very jagged pieces. Do not ever, and I mean _ever_ try to punch through a glass window. It ain’t the movies. You _will_ need stitches. Plate glass is mean. The article says “scrapes and cuts”. It’s the scrapes that make me suspect it’s wood. You’re not going to get “scrapes and cuts” from throwing your fist through a plate glass window. You’re going to get gashes that need stitches. [/QUOTE] Actually, if it was the glass on the sidelite of the door (which he would have broken to gain access to the locks) that you can break pretty easily with a punch and escape serious injury. You could even use, say, the end of a baton and wait until the glass falls away to stick your hand in. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/269 "2007-07-31T20:50:57Z")
[QUOTE=A Monkey With a Gun] Actually, yes I can. The glass used in windows, whether single paned or double, has a tendency to produce long fractures when broken. It’s not safety glass like in your car windows, it turns in to a bunch of small brittle knives. The movie thing where you see glass shatter is a myth. It’ll break, but it forms very, very jagged pieces. Do not ever, and I mean _ever_ try to punch through a glass window. It ain’t the movies. You _will_ need stitches. Plate glass is mean. The article says “scrapes and cuts”. It’s the scrapes that make me suspect it’s wood. You’re not going to get “scrapes and cuts” from throwing your fist through a plate glass window. You’re going to get gashes that need stitches. [/QUOTE] Wow, what a pile of shit. Too bad for your argument that we already know for a fact that he DID smash the window with his fist. ---
**Author:** ![vetbridge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5e925/32.png) [@vetbridge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vetbridge)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/270 "2007-07-31T20:57:47Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] The are charge with three separate misdemeanors. Are you thinking that there is one law that provides the punishment for all three? [/QUOTE] sigh/whoosh. I found it ironic that their total incarceration would be 420 days. Levity and all. Cite: > **[420 (cannabis culture)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/420_(cannabis_culture))** > > This is an accepted version of this page > > > > 420 (pronounced four-twenty) is cannabis culture slang for cannabis consumption, especially smoking around the time 4:20 p.m., and annual cannabis-oriented celebrations, protests, and advocacy held on 4/20, the U.S. notation for April 20. Five high school students in San Rafael, California, coined the term as part of their 1971 search for an abandoned cannabis crop, based on a treasure map made by the grower. Calling themselves the Waldos, because the... ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/271 "2007-07-31T20:58:24Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Wow, what a pile of shit. Too bad for your argument that we already know for a fact that he DID smash the window with his fist. [/QUOTE] Cite it mother fucker. I didn’t read that any where.. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/272 "2007-07-31T21:00:31Z")
[QUOTE=A Monkey With a Gun] Cite it mother fucker. I didn’t read that any where.. [/QUOTE] Oh good god, it seems obvious that he didn’t get his hand slammed in the door, and it’s probably gonna get tossed as a charge anyway. The resisting should stick though. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/273 "2007-07-31T21:01:55Z")
[QUOTE=vetbridge] sigh/whoosh. I found it ironic that their total incarceration would be 420 days. Levity and all. Cite: > **[420 (cannabis culture)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/420_(cannabis_culture))** > > This is an accepted version of this page > > > > 420 (pronounced four-twenty) is cannabis culture slang for cannabis consumption, especially smoking around the time 4:20 p.m., and annual cannabis-oriented celebrations, protests, and advocacy held on 4/20, the U.S. notation for April 20. Five high school students in San Rafael, California, coined the term as part of their 1971 search for an abandoned cannabis crop, based on a treasure map made by the grower. Calling themselves the Waldos, because the... [/QUOTE] So it’s a double whoosh, right? You link to a content-free cite? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/274 "2007-07-31T21:02:45Z")
Where’s your Buddha _now_? ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/275 "2007-07-31T21:03:24Z")
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers] Where’s your Buddha _now_? [/QUOTE] In the splinters of the broken door. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/276 "2007-07-31T21:05:46Z")
[QUOTE=buttonjockey308] Oh good god, it seems obvious that he didn’t get his hand slammed in the door, and it’s probably gonna get tossed as a charge anyway. The resisting should stick though. [/QUOTE] You’re right. mea culpa. I was wrong there. **Yojimbo’s** link states “punched his hand through”. Jeez, I’m getting sloppy. ---
**Author:** ![vetbridge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5e925/32.png) [@vetbridge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vetbridge)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/277 "2007-07-31T21:07:35Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] So it’s a double whoosh, right? You link to a content-free cite? [/QUOTE] 😃 OMFG, goddam stoners messed with the page, I guess. It worked initially, now doesn’t. > **[420 (cannabis culture)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/420_%28cannabis_culture%29)** > > This is an accepted version of this page > > > > 420 (pronounced four-twenty) is cannabis culture slang for cannabis consumption, especially smoking around the time 4:20 p.m., and annual cannabis-oriented celebrations, protests, and advocacy held on 4/20, the U.S. notation for April 20. Five high school students in San Rafael, California, coined the term as part of their 1971 search for an abandoned cannabis crop, based on a treasure map made by the grower. Calling themselves the Waldos, because the... Quick, before it changes… 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/278 "2007-07-31T21:08:32Z")
[QUOTE=A Monkey With a Gun] Cite it mother fucker. I didn’t read that any where.. [/QUOTE] The witness, asshole. It’s already been cited three times. Just accept it and move on. Even **Buttonjockey** cn admit that the deputy is probably full of shit about the door slam. It’s not like that one bone of contention is the whole ballgame in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/279 "2007-07-31T21:15:29Z")
[QUOTE=vetbridge] 😃 OMFG, goddam stoners messed with the page, I guess. It worked initially, now doesn’t. > **[420 (cannabis culture)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/420_%28cannabis_culture%29)** > > This is an accepted version of this page > > > > 420 (pronounced four-twenty) is cannabis culture slang for cannabis consumption, especially smoking around the time 4:20 p.m., and annual cannabis-oriented celebrations, protests, and advocacy held on 4/20, the U.S. notation for April 20. Five high school students in San Rafael, California, coined the term as part of their 1971 search for an abandoned cannabis crop, based on a treasure map made by the grower. Calling themselves the Waldos, because the... Quick, before it changes… 😛 [/QUOTE] OK. Back to a single whoosh. I had no idea what the 420 reference was. [QUOTE=Dio] The witness, asshole. It’s already been cited three times. Just accept it and move on. [/QUOTE] He did, man, two posts above yours. Chill out. ---
**Author:** ![Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/bc8723/32.png) [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unauthorized_Cinnamon)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/280 "2007-07-31T21:16:41Z")
[QUOTE=buttonjockey308] Reasonable people do not refuse to be identified, and the law is not on the side of those who do. [/QUOTE] I am a law-abiding, reasonable person. I strenuously object to being forced to provide identification at random, and unless I thought an officer had legal basis, would refuse to provide ID. (Granted, from reading this thread, it’s clear that a \*prudent \*person would provide ID upon being told they’re being cited.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735.md?page=15)