# Police Deputy smashes into home, attacks family for flying flag upside down. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 30, 2007, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735 "2007-07-30T20:54:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/281 "2007-07-31T21:18:06Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] OK. Back to a single whoosh. I had no idea what the 420 reference was. He did, man, two posts above yours. Chill out. [/QUOTE] I know. He posted that while I was writing mine. I didn’t preview. Plus, he didn’t apologize for calling me a motherfucker, so tell him to chill out too. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/282 "2007-07-31T21:20:53Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] The witness, asshole. It’s already been cited three times. Just accept it and move on. Even **Buttonjockey** cn admit that the deputy is probably full of shit about the door slam. It’s not like that one bone of contention is the whole ballgame in this thread. [/QUOTE] Psst. Just between you and me, look at post #276, that’s two posts above you’re quote. You’re constitutional arguments, or lack there of, are still a mark of idiocy, though. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/283 "2007-07-31T21:21:44Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I know. He posted that while I was writing mine. I didn’t preview. Plus, he didn’t apologize for calling me a motherfucker, so tell him to chill out too. [/QUOTE] Do we know that you aren’t one? 😉 OK OK OK. Hey **Monkey** , chill out, OK? ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/284 "2007-07-31T21:24:47Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] OK OK OK. Hey **Monkey** , chill out, OK? [/QUOTE] Dude, I’m chilled. Just enjoying the pit a bit. Should I stop poking the bear? Nah. I didn’t really mean that. Well, maybe I did. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/285 "2007-07-31T21:26:48Z")
You are correct, **Cinnamon**. If one is walking down the street eating an ice cream cone and is stopped by an LEO demanding ID, one has every right to be upset, protest, etc. It will probably mean you’ll still end up arrested, but you’ll have a much better case if you don’t assault the officer, and should luckily have the case dismissed and if really lucky, have the officer penalized. If, however, in the same situation, the officer says it is illegal to eat ice cream cones on the north side of the street in Stupidtown, USA and the officer is going to write a citation, one now knows the reason for a request for ID, and refusal to show will still get one thrown in the pokey, only this time the case is in the officer’s favor. About the only thing **gonzomax** got right is that a LEO can make your life difficult is s/he wants to be an ass about anything, and that a private citizen has little, if any, immediate recourse. ---
**Author:** ![lowbrass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dc4da7/32.png) [@lowbrass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lowbrass)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/286 "2007-07-31T21:39:48Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] Yeah… this isn’t actually a convincing point. Anything that can scratch human skin can also cut it. It’s just a matter of pressure applied. [/QUOTE] I disagree. “Slammed in door” would be consistent with bruises, possibly scrapes, and at the extreme, MAYBE lacerations. That seems extremely unlikely unless the door was being held shut with great force, in which case he wouldn’t have been able to _get_ his hand out of the door at all. But “cuts”? uh uh. “Stuck through a glass window” would be consistent with cuts and scratches. All I can say is, my reasoning is consistent with the third-party eyewitness account. Yours isn’t. Why are we arguing about this anyway? My original point was that Monkey’s scenario: > [@](#): > > My completely wild ass guess is that they’re both lying. The door was slammed on the deputies hand, causing injury. He then broke the window with a foreign object (probably a baton) to pursue the guy who just hurt his arm. just doesn’t wash. First, we have a witness who contradicts this. Second, why should we believe that the cop told the truth about getting slammed in the door, but then lied about breaking the glass with a foreign object, when we have 2 other people who say he broke in? If we believe he lied about one thing, why wouldn’t we believe he lied about the other thing? Even without the witness, that scenario smells like bullshit. With the witness, it cements it. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/287 "2007-07-31T21:48:41Z")
[QUOTE=Waverly] This is different than what I concluded after reading your earlier post. You had said that cases “virtually every trial” involved trying to show “that a police offer is lying.” When in fact you had developed a sense and your experience showed that most of them were truthful. Now you are stating that a vigorous cross examination is preferable to going off of opinion, which I can agree with. You do see the difference between nailing down the truth through intense questioning and portraying someone as a liar, don’t you? [/QUOTE] Dress up a pig and call it Mathilda if that makes you happy. What does a vigorous cross-examination do but suggest to the jury that what the officer has testified to on direct isn’t entirely accurate? Even if I believed the officer was truthful, it was an appropriate exercise of my job to cast doubt on his version of events, to deliberately confuse him, to try to make the jury see him as less than certain about what he just said. THAT is vigorous cross-examination. ---
**Author:** ![lowbrass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dc4da7/32.png) [@lowbrass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lowbrass)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/288 "2007-07-31T21:54:15Z")
[QUOTE=buttonjockey308] I’m proving a point to **lowbrass** that you can indeed be injured by a wooden door, that it’s POSSIBLE, although not, as I said previously about this case, bloody likely. [/quote] Huh? I never said you couldn’t be injured by a wooden door. It would be a different _type_ of injury, though. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/289 "2007-07-31T21:54:29Z")
[QUOTE=Unauthorized Cinnamon] I am a law-abiding, reasonable person. I strenuously object to being forced to provide identification at random, and unless I thought an officer had legal basis, would refuse to provide ID. (Granted, from reading this thread, it’s clear that a \*prudent \*person would provide ID upon being told they’re being cited.) [/QUOTE] It’s not USUALLY a random thing. In most cases there are honest-to-goodness reasons to ask for your ID. Decent cops aren’t going to just wander up to you and ask you for your ID as you go for your evening stroll, most of them are just too busy to deal with it, but when you encounter them, and when they ask you for your ID, as you said, a prudent person follows the law. Doing so ensures we won’t be having a thread about you. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/290 "2007-07-31T21:56:05Z")
[QUOTE=lowbrass] Huh? I never said you couldn’t be injured by a wooden door. It would be a different _type_ of injury, though. [/QUOTE] Oh fer the love of… you can be cut by a wooden door slamming on your arm/hand/dick whatever. It can cut you similar to the way glass can. Oy. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/291 "2007-07-31T21:56:07Z")
Here’s a [story of a doper](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=423145&highlight=identification) who was arrested for nothing other than failure to identify. Motherfuckers 😛 FWIW, he was in a park that was closed, but didn’t know that it was closed (the probable cause, which he was unaware of breaking any law…sound familiar?) and was not cited for failure to identify after ultimately complying with the request to identify after being cuffed (sound like a better scenario?) ---
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/292 "2007-07-31T21:57:59Z")
Bricker, I asked, “You do see the difference between nailing down the truth through intense questioning and portraying someone as a liar, don’t you?” You didn’t answer directly, but what you did say leads me to believe you do not appreciate the difference. That’s enough for me on the topic. ---
**Author:** ![lowbrass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dc4da7/32.png) [@lowbrass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lowbrass)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/293 "2007-07-31T21:58:11Z")
[QUOTE=buttonjockey308] Oh fer the love of… you can be cut by a wooden door slamming on your arm/hand/dick whatever. It can cut you similar to the way glass can. Oy. [/QUOTE] Why don’t you do it and post a picture. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/294 "2007-07-31T22:05:09Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Found the [statute](http://www.ncsu.edu/police/Information/NCLaw.html). [/QUOTE] Did you even think about that before you wrote it? Willfully just means “on purpose”, as opposed to accidentally. It’s pretty clear that they didn’t just accidentally slam the door in the cop’s face. > [@vetbridge](#): > > (bolding added). What were the legislators smoking when they wrote the law? Note that it said all the charges, which include resisting arrest and assault of a police officer. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/295 "2007-07-31T22:05:44Z")
[QUOTE=D\_Odds] You are correct, **Cinnamon**. If one is walking down the street eating an ice cream cone and is stopped by an LEO demanding ID, one has every right to be upset, protest, etc. It will probably mean you’ll still end up arrested, but you’ll have a much better case if you don’t assault the officer, and should luckily have the case dismissed and if really lucky, have the officer penalized. If, however, in the same situation, the officer says it is illegal to eat ice cream cones on the north side of the street in Stupidtown, USA and the officer is going to write a citation, one now knows the reason for a request for ID, and refusal to show will still get one thrown in the pokey, only this time the case is in the officer’s favor. About the only thing **gonzomax** got right is that a LEO can make your life difficult is s/he wants to be an ass about anything, and that a private citizen has little, if any, immediate recourse. [/QUOTE] Wrongo. My experiences are as stated. I have been to peace marches when police brought out clubs and started cracking heads. I have seen a lot of cop abuse in my life. I know what they are capable of. For most of my life I have had lots of police as friends and baseball team mates. I have been in on conversations that would make your skin crawl. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/296 "2007-07-31T22:08:42Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Note that it said all the charges, which include resisting arrest and assault of a police officer. [/QUOTE] We’ve been down that road, **John**. Posts 267, 270, 273, 277. When I first checked **vetbridge** ’s link it had been wiped clean. It has since been put back. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/297 "2007-07-31T22:09:04Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Did you even think about that before you wrote it? Willfully just means “on purpose”, as opposed to accidentally. It’s pretty clear that they didn’t just accidentally slam the door in the cop’s face. [/QUOTE] Slamming a door is not illegal. What has to be proven as “willful” is that they intended to obstruct the LEO from carrying out his duties. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/298 "2007-07-31T22:14:19Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Slamming a door is not illegal. What has to be proven as “willful” is that they intended to obstruct the LEO from carrying out his duties. [/QUOTE] Officer threatens to give citation. Citizen about to receive said citation slams door. How is that not willful? It’s a simple question. ---
**Author:** ![Long\_Time\_Lurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/2bfe46/32.png) [@Long\_Time\_Lurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Long_Time_Lurker)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/299 "2007-07-31T22:26:31Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Slamming a door is not illegal. What has to be proven as “willful” is that they intended to obstruct the LEO from carrying out his duties. [/QUOTE] Slamming the door is illegal if it obstructs the LEO from carrying out his duties. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/300 "2007-07-31T22:27:18Z")
[QUOTE=lowbrass] I disagree. “Slammed in door” would be consistent with bruises, possibly scrapes, and at the extreme, MAYBE lacerations. That seems extremely unlikely unless the door was being held shut with great force, in which case he wouldn’t have been able to _get_ his hand out of the door at all. But “cuts”? [/QUOTE] What the fuck do you think a laceration is? Doors often have metal flashing and metal strike plates on the inside. Growing up with a brother, I’ve gotten cuts from having my hand slammed in a door and one of my brother’s friends put his hands through a plate glass windows which lead to a nice near death experience on his ride to the hospital. Christ, of all the lame things to nitpick in this fucked up thread… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735.md?page=16)