# Police Deputy smashes into home, attacks family for flying flag upside down. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 30, 2007, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735 "2007-07-30T20:54:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/101 "2007-07-31T02:30:29Z")
[QUOTE=Carol Stream] Bullshit. Every deputy from Mayberry to Podunk is supposed to be well-versed in Supreme Court decisions? Talk about unreasonable expectations. [/QUOTE] It’s not an obscure decision. Yes, every fucking cop in the world should know what free speech is. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/102 "2007-07-31T02:41:01Z")
askeptic, please actually read my post. I didn’t claim that those were matters of law. I said that they were matters of flag etiquette. I never said that they should be enforced as laws. I just pointed out that I see those things much more often than things like flag burning or flying flags upside down. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/103 "2007-07-31T02:44:27Z")
[QUOTE=Wendell Wagner] askeptic, please actually read my post. [/QUOTE] I did, I don’t know what came over me some uncontrollable urge to pontificate off topic I guess. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/104 "2007-07-31T03:14:01Z")
Scarborough’s version is that he gave them a citation, and asked for ID, and they shut the door on his hand, “breaking the glass pane out of the door and cutting Scarborough’s hand.” The Kuhn’s say they pushed the door closed, and locked it, and Scarborough broke the glass in order to get into the house. I’m going to have to go along with the others who call bullshit on the police version of this. If they’d shut the door hard enough to break glass, surely it would have broken Scarborough’s hand? And if his hand was in the door, how did the glass make it to his hand? It’s hard to imagine a configuration in which the glass would have fallen on his hand, if it was caught in the door. It sounds like Scarborough may have lost his temper, and then changed things up in his report to protect himself. As for the Kuhn’s “right” to resist… there is no such right. There’s only one place to enforce your rights when it comes to cops, and that’s in the courtroom. Short of murder and rape, using force against police is generally illegal, and always retarded. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/105 "2007-07-31T03:22:00Z")
[QUOTE=Waverly] Ah, more of your foamy-mouthed hyperbole. In the state of N. Carolina, if a police officer rapes your wife during the course of an arrest, you are allowed to rape the officer back _as well as_ his dog. Any other improbable hyperbolic events you want to add to this scenario in the hopes of justifying your knee jerk reaction? [/QUOTE] Well done, you deserve a cookie. A nice warm chocolate chip cookie. Dio deserves a reading comprehension class and needs to get himself a trip to a day spa. ---
**Author:** ![da\_pope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ba0ec/32.png) [@da\_pope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/da_pope)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/106 "2007-07-31T03:46:47Z")
[QUOTE=Jodi] This is complete and utter bullshit. I have worked with law enforcement for years now, including reviewing at length the training they receive. I have never yet met one who was “taught what to say to get a conviction” or who was a “professional liar.” You can slag off the whole field with that broad brush of yours, but that doesn’t mean they are as a class without personal integrity or professionalism. So enjoy your delusions of persecution by jack-booted thugs, but unless you’ve got some cite to back this up, it’s nothing but crap. [/QUOTE] I used to believe ‘most officers are true heroes of our modern world’, but over the years I’ve heard many anecdotes about lawlessness, dickheadedness, and outright brutality and murder committed by the brave in blue. Of course anecdotes don’t make it true. Of course, [some](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070727/ap_on_re_us/chicago_police_lawsuit_1) [days](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070719/ap_on_re_us/chicago_police_corruption_2) I [get](http://sg.news.yahoo.com/ap/20070709/twl-skateboarders-police-video-1be00ca.html) to [read](http://news.yahoo.com/s/kprc/20070704/lo_kprc/13620831) [about](http://news.yahoo.com/s/prweb/20070730/bs_prweb/prweb542814_1) the [atrocities](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070727/ap_on_re_us/police_beating_8) [committed](http://news.yahoo.com/s/wyff/20070726/lo_wyff/13754552) by [law](http://news.yahoo.com/s/usnw/20070724/pl_usnw/arkansas_police_officer_pleads_guilty_to_civil_rights_violation) [enforcement](http://sg.news.yahoo.com/ap/20070702/twl-police-beatings-1be00ca.html) [against](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ksat/20070724/lo_ksat/13741278) citizens, some who easily merit serious police attention, some completely in the clear. None deserved the outcome of their encounter with officer friendly. No longer can I take the side of police ‘automatically’ when the latest hippie v. cop story comes across the wire. [QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Regardless of how they’re trained, they still do lie and shade the truth and back each other up. Cops lie all the time. Everybody knows that. It’s not a secret [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=gonzomax] Because police are taught what to say to get a conviction. They are professional liars when it is called for. People are very unlikely to start trouble with a cop. It does not pay. They usually just accept the injustice and hope it goes away. [/QUOTE] I can buy this. I’ve read about it too many times, I’ve heard the stories first hand, second hand, even in forums. It’s not hard to believe that anyone would lie to protect their job, their co-worker, and their friends, in any situation. Including (and maybe specifically), employees of state and federal law enforcement. We spot these guys at least 25 honesty points just for donning the uniform. [QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] If a police officer is beating the shit out of my wife, do I have a right to defend her. What if he tries to rape her? [/QUOTE] Gasp! How can anybody say such a thing? How can anyone believe something like this hasn’t happened already? Police powers have been abused since police powers were invented. It doesn’t seem too far a leap from jailhouse nightstick up the poop-shoot or 41 bullets fired at a man with a deadly wallet, to B&E/wife raping in a private residence. The convictions and allegations we read about only include the ones that were caught. It just no longer seems logical to believe the bad apple theory any longer, it seems naïve. Quite sad actually. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/107 "2007-07-31T04:10:35Z")
[QUOTE=Omegaman] Why do assume the cop in question is lying? [/QUOTE] Because enough of them have done so, and been backed up by their brethren and their superiors, to put the entire profession in the position of the Boy Who Just Cried “Wolf” For The Two Hundred And Fifty-Ninth Time. Duh. ---
**Author:** ![Klaatu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Klaatu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Klaatu)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/108 "2007-07-31T04:12:04Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I might have been wrong about the ID thing. I assumed the right to remain silent included a right not to indentify one’s self. It appears I could have been wrong. **Still, the cop was only writing the ticket to be an asshole pain in the balls and harrass a couple of liberals.** (bolding mine.) Plus, they weren’t even in violation of the statute in the first place, as far as I can tell. [/QUOTE] Heh Dio, I just KNEW you started this thread in the hopes that it would devolve into a “fascist cop fucks with the libs fuck bush fuck the war blah blah” bullshit. Not that I disagree with a lot of your shit, but you are so transparent dude. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/109 "2007-07-31T04:16:20Z")
[QUOTE=Klaatu] Heh Dio, I just KNEW you started this thread in the hopes that it would devolve into a “fascist cop fucks with the libs fuck bush fuck the war blah blah” bullshit. Not that I disagree with a lot of your shit, but you are so transparent dude. [/QUOTE] I didn’t think “fascist cop fucks with anti-war libs” was exactly a concealed sentiment on my part. I would be fine with that as a thread title. I’m not hiding anything. ---
**Author:** ![Klaatu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Klaatu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Klaatu)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/110 "2007-07-31T04:19:23Z")
I don’t think you expected to get so much shit though. eta, yes, a damn fine thread title 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/111 "2007-07-31T04:26:09Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] It’s not an obscure decision. Yes, every fucking cop in the world should know what free speech is. [/QUOTE] Every cop in the world, eh? Tell that to your buddies in Iran, then. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/112 "2007-07-31T04:40:33Z")
[QUOTE=Carol Stream] Every cop in the world, eh? Tell that to your buddies in Iran, then. :dubious: [/QUOTE] I have no idea what this sentence is supposed to mean. ---
**Author:** ![lowbrass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dc4da7/32.png) [@lowbrass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lowbrass)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/113 "2007-07-31T04:44:17Z")
[QUOTE=Lute Skywatcher] I once put my entire arm through the window of a door that was closing because I was pissed off and didn’t realize what I was doing. [/QUOTE] Gee, Lute Skywatcher disagrees with me. There’s a shocker. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/114 "2007-07-31T04:46:38Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I have no idea what this sentence is supposed to mean. [/QUOTE] Right back at ya. You said, and I quote, “Yes, every fucking cop in the world should know what free speech is.” Care to back that statement up, or are you just frothing at the mouth? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/115 "2007-07-31T05:16:02Z")
[QUOTE=Carol Stream] Right back at ya. You said, and I quote, “Yes, every fucking cop in the world should know what free speech is.” Care to back that statement up, or are you just frothing at the mouth? [/QUOTE] I think I just figured out that you’re seizing on the phrase “in the world” like you think you’re scoring some kind of salient point or something. My God, you’re an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/116 "2007-07-31T05:22:37Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I think I just figured out that you’re seizing on the phrase “in the world” like you think you’re scoring some kind of salient point or something. My God, you’re an idiot. [/QUOTE] So which cops are supposed to believe in FREE SPEECH? Only the ones in your jurisdiction, and fuck everybody else? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/117 "2007-07-31T05:45:57Z")
[QUOTE=Carol Stream] So which cops are supposed to believe in FREE SPEECH? Only the ones in your jurisdiction, and fuck everybody else? [/QUOTE] I didn’t say they should be expected to BELIEVE in it, imbecile, I say they should know what it IS. Yes, every cop in the US (does that make you happier?)should damn well know what the 1st Amendment is and should be aware that so-called “flag-desecration” (a logical impossibility for an object which is not sacred to begin with but that’s another argument) is protected free speech. I’m positive that the deputy in this case knew it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/118 "2007-07-31T06:03:14Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I didn’t say they should be expected to BELIEVE in it, imbecile, I say they should know what it IS. Yes, every cop in the US (does that make you happier?)should damn well know what the 1st Amendment is and should be aware that so-called “flag-desecration” (a logical impossibility for an object which is not sacred to begin with but that’s another argument) is protected free speech. I’m positive that the deputy in this case knew it. [/QUOTE] Another argument that you already [lost](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7536764&postcount=154) once. Have you forgotten already? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/119 "2007-07-31T06:35:17Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I’m positive that the deputy in this case knew it. [/QUOTE] So you not only know what actually happened and who is lying, but you know what knowledge the officer possesed as he came to the house? Quite an amazing talent. Which raises the question, why bother with all this typing and reading. Doesn’t your knowing what people are thinking and are going to type make this whole posting thing a bit boring for you? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2007, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735/120 "2007-07-31T07:44:44Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Another argument that you already [lost](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7536764&postcount=154) once. Have you forgotten already? [/QUOTE] I wish to change my response from that previous thread. upon reflection I have decided that the precedent for the use of the word “desecrated” in statutory language only that means is that the cretins who write these laws don’t know the definitions of the words they use. I still say that flag can’t, in actuality, be “desecrated,” regardless of the erroneous language used in a statute penned by cretins. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-deputy-smashes-into-home-attacks-family-for-flying-flag-upside-down/413735.md?page=7)