# Police in the U.S. were all private before the Civil War? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 20, 2014, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-in-the-u-s-were-all-private-before-the-civil-war/693628 "2014-07-20T21:18:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2014, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-in-the-u-s-were-all-private-before-the-civil-war/693628/1 "2014-07-20T21:18:41Z")
If I had seen this in a less reputable publication than [The Atlantic,](http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/07/the-facebook-cop-and-the-implications-of-privatized-policing/374694/) I would have dismissed it immediately as some kind of urban legend or outright fabrication: > [@](#): > > Understanding the trend of oncoming privatization requires understanding the origins of policing. The word “sheriff,” DeCarlo told me, dates back to the Middle Ages, when wealthy landowners hired groups of men to keep the peace in their villages, then known as shires. These bands reported to a reeve, or leader, known as the “shire reeve”—two words that over time fused into “sheriff.” From then until the late 1800s, policing remained a private undertaking. It was only after London established the first metropolitan police department in 1863 that the idea of a public police force caught on in the United States. “The roots of policing are really private,” DeCarlo says. Wait, what? So what was the purpose of the Fourth Amendment? Did cities and towns really just have private security forces and no cops as we understand them? I can’t wrap my mind around this–and I majored in history in college. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2014, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-in-the-u-s-were-all-private-before-the-civil-war/693628/2 "2014-07-20T21:46:38Z")
The idea of a standing, publicly-funded, uniformed police force is certainly a modern one. That doesn’t mean that there was no government policing; it was just a task that was undertaken by various bureaucrats and ministers in more of an _ad hoc_ manner. For example, the courts had officers to serve and enforce warrants or subpoenas, but who wouldn’t really be considered police officers in the modern sense. ETA: But the Civil War is a little to recent to be used as a demarcation. The NYPD was founded in 1845, for example. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2014, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-in-the-u-s-were-all-private-before-the-civil-war/693628/3 "2014-07-20T21:59:02Z")
> **[Police](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police)** > > The police are a constituted body of persons empowered by a state with the aim of enforcing the law and protecting the public order as well as the public itself. This commonly includes ensuring the safety, health, and possessions of citizens, and to prevent crime and civil disorder. Their lawful powers encompass arrest and the use of force legitimized by the state via the monopoly on violence. The term is most commonly associated with the police forces of a sovereign state that are autho Law ... > [@](#): > > In British North America, policing was initially provided by local elected officials. For instance, the New York Sheriff’s Office was founded in 1626, and the Albany County Sheriff’s Department in the 1660s. In the colonial period, policing was provided by elected sheriffs and local militias. > > In 1789 the U.S. Marshals Service was established, followed by other federal services such as the U.S. Parks Police (1791)[32] and U.S. Mint Police (1792).[33] The first city police services were established in Philadelphia in 1751,[34] Richmond, Virginia in 1807,[35] Boston in 1838,[36] and New York in 1845.[37] The U.S. Secret Service was founded in 1865 and was for some time the main investigative body for the federal government.[38] > > After the American Civil War, policing became more paramilitary in character, with the increased use of uniforms and military ranks. Before this, sheriff’s offices had been non-uniformed organizations without a para-military hierarchy.[citation needed] > > In the American Old West, policing was often of very poor quality.[citation needed] The Army often provided some policing alongside poorly resourced sheriffs and temporarily organised posses.[citation needed] Public organizations were supplemented by private contractors, notably the Pinkerton National Detective Agency, which was hired by individuals, businessmen, local governments and the federal government. At its height, the Pinkerton Agency’s numbers exceeded those of the United States Army.[citation needed] ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2014, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-in-the-u-s-were-all-private-before-the-civil-war/693628/4 "2014-07-20T21:59:16Z")
In the middle ages, under the feudal system, those “wealthy landowners” mentioned in the OP’s quote _were_, in effect, the government. We are talking about aristocrats, dukes, earls, barons or whatever, who ruled over a certain area, but ultimately deriving their legitimacy from the king. It is very misleading to speak of this as “private” policing, as if we were talking about the private security services used by a modern company or modern landowner to guard their property. It is much closer to having local policing being the responsibility of local government entities rather than the national government, which is, of course, how things are mostly done today. The nature of local government has changed a lot, but the relation of policing to government, really not so very much. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2014, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-in-the-u-s-were-all-private-before-the-civil-war/693628/5 "2014-07-20T22:14:04Z")
Medieval sheriffs were not hired by private individuals. They were appointed by the king. The idea was that the local noble might rule the land but there was also a sheriff who was there to make sure royal laws were being enforced. So these sheriffs were the early foundations of our modern police departments. They were established by the government (in this case the monarch) and given the job of enforcing the laws on a local level. ---
**Author:** ![dofe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ba0ec/32.png) [@dofe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dofe)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-in-the-u-s-were-all-private-before-the-civil-war/693628/6 "2014-07-21T00:05:19Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Wait, what? So what was the purpose of the Fourth Amendment? Did cities and towns really just have private security forces and no cops as we understand them? I can’t wrap my mind around this–and I majored in history in college. According to Friedman’s [A History of American Law](http://www.amazon.com/History-American-Law-Third-Edition/dp/0684869888): > [@](#): > > Today, we accept, almost without thinking, the idea that the state has a monopoly of legitimate violence. But this was not always so, at least not literally. The state was weak and lax, for the most part; when it needed more muscle, it recruited private citizens to help out. In the southern states, slave patrols made up of local citizens, had authority to catch, and whip, slaves who were on the streets after curfew, or without a good reason or a pass from their owners. The Western “posse,” familiar to every movie fan, was a survival from the days when a sheriff or other officer rounded up able-bodied men to help him out. Today we think of the Fourth Amendment as mainly applicable to criminal law. However, the original drive behind it was a [fear of the seizure power](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#Colonial_America) of tax collectors: > [@](#): > > In 1756, the colony of Massachusetts enacted legislation that barred the use of general warrants. This represented the first law in American history curtailing the use of seizure power. Its creation largely stemmed from the great public outcry over the Excise Act of 1754, which gave tax collectors unlimited powers to interrogate colonists concerning their use of goods subject to customs. The act also permitted the use of a general warrant known as a writ of assistance, allowing tax collectors to search the homes of colonists and seize “prohibited and uncustomed” goods ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-in-the-u-s-were-all-private-before-the-civil-war/693628/7 "2014-07-21T00:27:51Z")
As \*\*friedo \*\*notes, there were organized police departments before the Civil War. The St. Louis Metropolitan Police Department was organized in 1808 as a militia. By 1846 the deparment began to take its current shape, and in [1861, the Missouri Governor established a civilian board to take charge of the department.](http://www.slmpd.org/history.shtml) Its structure is basically the same today. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-in-the-u-s-were-all-private-before-the-civil-war/693628/8 "2014-07-21T00:33:49Z")
There have always been officials empowered to enact the law, but professional police forces in modern times date from the early Industrial Revolution, when cities increased in size to a point where a more formal system was required. Sir Robert Peel more or less invented the modern police force. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-in-the-u-s-were-all-private-before-the-civil-war/693628/9 "2014-07-21T01:12:50Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Sir Robert Peel more or less invented the modern police force. And that’s why they’re called bobbies. (Or peelers, if you’re old-fashioned.) ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-in-the-u-s-were-all-private-before-the-civil-war/693628/10 "2014-07-21T01:21:17Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > And that’s why they’re called bobbies. (Or peelers, if you’re old-fashioned.) :dubious: Calling then “bobbies” is pretty durned old-fashioned too. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-in-the-u-s-were-all-private-before-the-civil-war/693628/11 "2014-07-21T02:23:37Z")
Thanks for all the info. So would we say that article was neutral, negative, or positive when it comes to fighting ignorance? ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-in-the-u-s-were-all-private-before-the-civil-war/693628/12 "2014-07-21T06:24:28Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Thanks for all the info. So would we say that article was neutral, negative, or positive when it comes to fighting ignorance? Well, the MET was founded in 1829 not 1863, so there’s that historical inaccuracy. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-in-the-u-s-were-all-private-before-the-civil-war/693628/13 "2014-07-21T09:29:04Z")
Of course, before we had policemen, we had Constables. This title goes back to Roman times when it was more to do with horses, but in medieval times it was a title for the head of the army; however, the term was also used at the local level within the feudal system, describing an officer appointed to keep order. > [@](#): > > In 1285 King Edward I of England “constituted two constables in every hundred to prevent defaults in towns and highways”. There are records of parish constables by the 17th century in the county records of Buckinghamshire; traditionally they were elected by the parishioners, but from 1617 onwards were typically appointed by justices of the peace in each county. > **[Parish constable](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parish_constable)** > > A parish constable, also known as a petty constable, was a law enforcement officer, usually unpaid and part-time, serving a parish. The position evolved from the ancient chief pledge of a tithing and takes its name from the office of constable with which it was originally unconnected. > It is distinct from the more senior position of the hundred-constable, also known as the High Constable (e.g. the High Constable of Holborn, who was one of the hundred-constables for Ossulstone; Ossulstone's hundre... So the Parish Constable in the middle ages was not far removed from the American Sheriff in the 19th century: He (probably always he) was appointed locally and any costs were paid from local funds. His duties were wide and varied, and included The administration of justice; apprehending offenders and taking them before the magistrates. Acting as the Coroner’s Officer; supervising beggars, vagrants and others in distress passing through the parish and collecting taxes.