Here’s a different question. To defend someone at trial you HAVE to be a lawyer, correct? And assuming that answer is yes…if he has a lawyer, can a non-lawyer in with the defendant as ‘counsel’?*
*I assume the counsel (if allowed) cannot object. But can a defendant with a lawyer object?
In *Homicide: A Year on the Killing Streets *David Simon, creator of The Wire, wrote about how Baltimore homicide detectives work. They offer the suspect the chance to “tell his side of the story” before asserting their right to a lawyer. They tell him stuff like:
“Once you up and call for that lawyer, son, we can’t do a damn thing for you. . . . The next authority figure to scan your case will be a tie-wearing, three-piece bloodsucker - a no-nonsense prosecutor from the Violent Crimes Unit . . . And God help you then, son . . . . Now’s the time to speak up . . . because once I walk out of this room any chance you have of telling your side of the story is gone and I gotta write it up the way it looks. . . . And it looks right now like first-degree murder.”
Suspects are cajoled to believe that the detectives care about them, that their crime is not really murder, that the detective believes their story and will go in to bat for them. Once the detective has a confession he leaves and with the other squad members openly laughs at the suspects gullibility. The squad had a saying “crime makes you stupid”.
Great book by the way.
Oh, I know. I don’t know how many times I’ve seen an ID Channel show where the interviewer is saying, “Now look! I’m giving you one chance to tell your side of the story. This is the only chance your going to get.”
As if admitting you killed someone is in any way advantageous to you. I swear, I really think there’s an unfilled job niche here. “Police Interview Counsel”.
I should post my number in laundry mats or stand outside police precincts. “No, I am NOT a lawyer. But Goddamn, I’m a lot cheaper than a lawyer and I will keep you from making reeeeeeallllly stupid mistakes.”
I’m not getting the question.
If your semen is found inside a 15 year old - what does it matter what you say? You’re already guilty of statutory rape. In that case, what does it matter if you admit it or not?
No, he’s not guilty until a court finds him thus. Admitting guilt will speed up that process.
In the actual case, the suspect had not been DNA tested yet. So I should have said, “Semen suspected as belonging to the man being interviewed was found inside the dead woman.” Sorry.
I totally missed the “inspired by true events” and thought this was a hypothetical. I hate people.
Yes it was a great book. Its also about 25 years old. I’m not sure if the procedures or precedents are that much different in Maryland but here in New Jersey even a hint at trying to talk someone out of getting a lawyer will get the interview and probably the case thrown out. The prosecutor probably won’t even try to go forward with it since it would be a waste of time.
Really? Someone else could have put it there. Artificial insemination is nothing new.
Sure. They could sneak in at night and steal your semen then plant it in a dead girl.
I do not avoid women but I deny them my essence.
Or save or steal a used condom, or give you a blowjob and save it (q.v. Boris Becker).
Why hasn’t anyone posted the youtube of the cop in a Law School class?
After the teacher tells the class, at length, of “never talk to police”, he invites a 20-yr Detective to correct anything he missed.
First thing: “You nailed it, no corrections”
He then explains some of the techniques (including “interview”, never “interrogate”) used.
Best one: If the suspect is young enough, he’ll say “you know, those people you stole that stuff from are pissed - they want to put you away for a long time” “Maybe if you wrote them a letter of apology, I could get them to back off”.
This is why there is always a tablet of paper and a pen on the table. When the idiot is finished writing his confession, the cop signs and dates it.
He is NOT your friend, and is NOT going to “go to bat” for you.
Now, somebody post the link.
I can guarantee there is never a pad or paper in any interview I have done. A pen comes out and goes away after the Miranda form is signed. I am unarmed. I don’t want to give him something to get stabby with me. Someone was watching too much NYPD Blue.
If that evidence is found valid at trial, sure.
What if the lab burns down? What if the sample is found to violate chain of custody rules? What if the DNA sequencing machine had a software bug? There are all sorts of things that mean it can’t be used against you.
If you admit you were there, they now have another piece of evidence (your confession) tying you to any crimes they may choose to charge you with.
Later on, you can always, with a lawyer’s counsel, choose to plead to the lesser charge of statutory rape. No need to make that decision right now.
Here we are:
I don’t see how criminals trusting the people who everyone thinks are trustworthy makes them stupid. Cops have a vested interest in not letting you know that they are not trustworthy. When not otherwise required to do so, it is in their best interest to make you think that not remaining silent will be useful. The more people trust them, the more lies they can get away with. The more criminals know to keep their mouth shut, the harder the cops’ jobs become.
It actually makes me wonder why so many cops seem to want to tell people to remain silent, even when they don’t have to. Is there some sense of duty involved or something? Is it one of those things where you think “We told you and told you. If you didn’t listen, it’s not our fault”?
Cops actually telling people to remain silent actually is what gives them back some trustworthiness after learning of the seedy tactics they will use to elicit a confession.
If you ask for an attorney and the conversation ever steered near this point, the attorney would end the interview. This is why you need to speak with an attorney before you speak with the police…ALWAYS. If the police are accusing you of committing a crime, then you need to shut up and a let a professional doing your talking for you.
I have no idea what you are talking about. You have a constitutional right to remain silent. The police are required to remind you of that right by the Supreme Court.
And don’t believe what you see on TV. Most TV cop interrogations are totally wrong or at least 40 years out of date. Most interviews are straight forward and don’t require any “seedy tactics.” Things like stretching the truth and outright lying are a last resort since if you are caught at it your effectiveness during the interview is done. There are a lot more restrictions on what can and can’t be said in an interview than TV shows would have you believe. And state courts can and sometimes are more restrictive than Supreme Court rulings.
That’s not been my experience, though admittedly the only police interviews I’ve seen have been of the newsworthy type. Yes, most police interviews/interrogations are much more confessional than confrontational - get the guy to keep talking, and eventually he will tell you what you want to hear. A good deal of falsehood is involved, though. If you recall, they told George Zimmerman that someone had gotten video footage of his fight with Trayvon Martin, and I’ve seen similar tactics in local cases. Blatant lies are one thing, but the police will absolutely stretch the truth.
ETA: thanks to **usedtobe **for posting that video. It explains the situation extremely well.
Yes it can and does happen. However if they start fishing and lie about something the subject knows isn’t true you are done. For instance if I go in and say, “We found the gun” but the guy knows he melted it down to slag and there is no gun to be found he realizes that I am full of shit. Anything else I say will be pretty much ignored. The truth is much more effective than a lie. I try to stay away from lies as much as possible. Usually people either want to talk or they don’t. Tricking someone to talk is Perry Mason’s job.
Joe Friday used to give the perp a stern look and say, “Come on, let’s have it” and they’d talk. Give it a try!