So, if Osama Bin Laden was driving through your state (pretend he was still alive) and you pulled him over for speeding you would have to let him go because the federal warrant for a terrorist is not something a state/county/municipal police officer can do anything about? Write him a ticket and send him on his way?
Do you mean if he was carrying a drivers license that said he was Osama Bin Laden?
Wasn’t there a case where Fightin’ Joe Arpaio tried to enforce federal immigration law and the INS slapped him down hard saying, “That’s our job, not yours.” And if so and IIRC it came out that Arpaio couldn’t enforce federal law.
No, silly. The have to let him go because he was traveling, not driving.
There are interagency task forces. We have lent officers out to a DEA task force in the past. Those officers are deputized federally for the length of their assignment and work directly with US Attorneys. Federal agents run the task forces. Without those special powers they would not be able to enforce federal laws.
There was (maybe still is) a controversial program for local departments to be deputized to enforce immigration laws. Without that power granted local departments can’t. My state has gone further and prohibits cooperation on ICE issues. That’s not illegal. We don’t interfere we just don’t help.
A few times when I was a detective we worked with the Secret Service on counterfeit cases. They come along on the search warrant. When inevitably the case turns out to be too small for them to deal with they leave it to us to charge with a state forgery charge. They love it. Less work for them. Pretty much every criminal charge in the US Code that a local officer would have to deal with is also covered with state statutes.
An arrest warrant is totally different than what we have been talking about (which is arresting on probable cause). We would not be arresting for a crime we would be following a judge’s order that compels us to detain. A federal warrant will be entered into NCIC so we would be able to see it. An arrest warrant compels the officer to arrest. Whether the warrant is local, from a different county, a different state or federal the process is similar but not exactly the same.
If picked up on warrant from within the state the suspect is arrested and brought in. The warrant would have been confirmed on either the state criminal system, the traffic ticket system or NCIC. The originating agency is compelled to either come and get them or if their local court accepts it grant a new court date and a ROR.
If someone is arrested for a warrant out of state it will only show up if it was entered into NCIC. The entry will list the area of extradition. If it’s extraditable it is confirmed through NCIC. For obvious reasons the other state will not show up in a couple of hours to get them. We have a state “fugitive from justice” statute. We charge them with that and send them to the county jail. The county jail only holds prisoners on state warrants which is why that step is necessary.
For a federal warrant the process is similar. The NCIC warrant will have the agency to contact. They generally come right away to get the suspect. Sometimes they request the county jail to house and we send them there on a state fugitive from justice warrant.
Okay, and I probably haven’t stated it well. You pull over a guy that you have a hunch, no PC, that he has a dead body in his trunk. You don’t want this guy to get away but you are wracking your brain for a reason to search his car.
You come up with the idea that he smells like weed so you can search as a private citizen enforcing federal law.
I’m a prosecutor. I argue that the state law, purporting to make such a thing illegal, violates our federal system so the murder conviction stands.
So, if officer Friendly says he wants to search my car and I refuse and then officer Friendly says he is now Joe Unfriendly, private citizen who wants to search my car and I refuse what happens? He says, “Citizens arrest!” I tell him to f-off and go to leave. Can he tackle me? Something else?
Generally yes. If it is a lawful arrest, you must submit to it. If it is an unlawful arrest, you may resist it, even from a law enforcement officer in 10 states
How could a citizen’s arrest work if people could just ignore it?
What should Ahmaud Arbery have done?
That was found to be unlawful. He had every right to fight back.
If at this point Citizen Joe assaults you, I think you’d have a serious case against perp Joe… “that you have a hunch, no PC,” - if a police officer does not have grounds to arrest someone, then a citizen is certainly exceeding the bounds of the law by doing so.
This is precisely the Arbery case - there was zero grounds to detain him, let alone use deadly force to do so. A citizen’s arrest requires that you witness the crime - they instead went on a hunch which had no basis in facts. So the initial premise of the arrest was incorrect. (Without getting deeper into the case)
Worse yet, if someone is standing there in full police uniform with a cruiser and flashing lights at the side of the highway, how much credence will the court give to the suspect actually believing and understanding “He’s suddenly a private citizen” and the suspect can now ignore his apparent legal authority?
Same in this instance. You have nothing other than a hunch… “this guy is shifty, won’t look me in the eye.” Well, maybe he’s autistic. My wife said that about a co-worker; that he would look off to the side during conversations.
“At least you look me in the eyes” she said about me because I have a mild case.
I had to correct her - “No, I’m looking at your mouth, because that’s where the sound is coming out.”
(In the Christine Jessop case, the police fixated on neighbour Paul Morin to the exclusion of all other evidence, because their gut told them the “weird” next door neighbour had to be the guilty one. They warped the timeline to try to convict him, and he won on appeal twice and was in the middle of his third (re)trial when DNA evidence became technically possible and proved him innocent. DNA eventually pinpointed the real suspect 30 years later when he was already dead. So much for gut - intestinal hypotheticals are NOT a PC to arrest anyone)
You think a citizen’s arrest for smelling weed would give a citizen a right to search a trunk? So if I smell weed when my neighbor opens his door, can I search his nightstand drawers?
Found to be unlawful after the fact.
When can you fight back? When can Joe Citizen decide your “citizen’s arrest” is unlawful while the event progresses?
When it is just citizens who gets to decide what the law is?
“Mr Neighbor, I could place you under citizen’s arrest, but this is your first offense I’m aware of, so I’ll just confiscate this bud. Now, anything in your pockets that might poke or stick me?”
Some people are more citizen than others? It’s really not hard to tell.
I see that most posters don’t like the concept of a citizen’s arrest, but it is a thing, and yes, if you arrest the occupant of a vehicle, and you have probable cause to believe that evidence of his crime is located in his car, then case law holds you can search the entire car. I didn’t make this up.
A home is treated differently under the law than a car.
That’s very much a danger of citizen’s arrests, but again, I didn’t invent the concept so I don’t know why posters are upset with me for simply saying what the law is. Disagree with it if you want, but citizens may make lawful arrests. If they are found unlawful later, then it was an assault or battery. If they were found lawful later, then the person resisting was guilty of a battery.
Also I don’t know what the elimination of the concept of a citizen’s arrest would even look like. Say a guy unloads 30 rounds on a public street. He is stopping to reload, hide, and he bumps into me. I must say, “My dear man, our state has just outlawed citizen’s arrests so please continue on your way?”
That’s self defense and/or defense of others, not a citizens arrest. As I suspect you very well know.
Yes, I thought about how it was a bad hypo. Let’s try this: a guy just robbed a bank and killed four employees and threw his gun away. He rushes out near me. I grab him. He can sue me for battery because the state has disallowed a citizen’s arrest?
Sure, and your attorney can argue you acted appropriately.