# Police prioritizing their own personal safety over that of the public **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 16, 2026, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-prioritizing-their-own-personal-safety-over-that-of-the-public/1033900 "2026-10-16T20:24:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2026, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-prioritizing-their-own-personal-safety-over-that-of-the-public/1033900/181 "2026-10-20T19:20:34Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I don’t think they should have let him shoot first, but nor do I think they responded appropriately either. Well, maybe, but also remember a rifle bullet goes thru most fences and most house walls also. > [@robby](#): > > And if the person is merely trying to be threatening (which is quite likely, _ **or they would have already shot you** _), then you diving and taking cover and/or moving away from them is least likely to provoke them into actually shooting you. You really have no idea of gunfights do you? > [@Babale](#): > > Wow - that’s a fascinating article - I couldn’t have imagined that US cities have HALF SIZED police forces compared to cities in Europe. That’s mind-blowing. Like the experts Gladwell consulted, I would have expected the US to have double the police, not half. And outside the UK (which is arming more police with firearms) they all have guns. However, they have less police shootings as less of the population have guns. Lots of knives sure, but a taser or spray is usually fine vs a knife. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2026, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-prioritizing-their-own-personal-safety-over-that-of-the-public/1033900/182 "2026-10-20T19:28:08Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > You really have no idea of gunfights do you? Feel free to enlighten us. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2026, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-prioritizing-their-own-personal-safety-over-that-of-the-public/1033900/183 "2026-10-20T19:28:52Z")
> [@robby](#): > > So you are going to instead stand there like a gunslinger, pull out your own gun, disengage the safety, and somehow get a shot off first? I didn’t say anything about “just standing there”. It’s not a Clint Eastwood western. LOL ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2026, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-prioritizing-their-own-personal-safety-over-that-of-the-public/1033900/184 "2026-10-20T19:32:31Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > > [@robby](#): > > > > And if the person is merely trying to be threatening (which is quite likely, _ **or they would have already shot you** _), then you diving and taking cover and/or moving away from them is least likely to provoke them into actually shooting you. > > You really have no idea of gunfights do you? @robby has had actual military training. What is your experience? ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2026, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-prioritizing-their-own-personal-safety-over-that-of-the-public/1033900/185 "2026-10-20T19:52:54Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > > [@robby](#): > > > > So you are going to instead stand there like a gunslinger, pull out your own gun, disengage the safety, and somehow get a shot off first? > > I didn’t say anything about “just standing there”. It’s not a Clint Eastwood western. LOL So what _would_ you do? Be specific. Before you simply wrote: > [@Jasmine](#): > > Well, if you pulled out a gun and pointed at me, I would shoot you before you shot me. …but you’ve given no indication on how you plan to do that without getting shot in the process. I’ll note that the other person already has a gun trained on you. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2026, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-prioritizing-their-own-personal-safety-over-that-of-the-public/1033900/186 "2026-10-20T20:06:35Z")
> [@robby](#): > > In the article, he notes that the Flint (Michigan) police department (consisting of 93 officers for a city of 80,000 people) is so small and undermanned that they basically police like a counterinsurgency force—where they drive out on patrol in “heavily armed jeeps and basically break some knees and return to base.” 😳 And funnily enough when he asked a former police chief “what would you do if you had double the workforce” his answer, while coming from exactly the perspective you’d expect a police chief to have, circles back around and ties into some of what the “Defund” people were asking for: police officers to make ties with the community and so on. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2026, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-prioritizing-their-own-personal-safety-over-that-of-the-public/1033900/187 "2026-10-20T20:17:28Z")
> [@robby](#): > > So what _would_ you do? Be specific. This whole discussion is becoming inane because, unless you’ve actually been in a live fire situation, you have no idea what it is going to feel like and how it will play out. I remember the first time my dad let me fire his semi-auto pistol when I was 11. We were in the woods. My dad and brother were firing at bottles. After a while, my dad said I could have my first try at firing at targets. They were just bottles, but I was totally revved up with my heart racing a mile a minute, so they may as well have been people. I emptied that 15 round clip in about 10 seconds at a bottle sitting not more than 15 feet away, and I didn’t hit it with a single bullet! It was like that scene in Pulp Fiction where that guy bursts out of the bathroom and empties his gun at Samuel L. Jackson’s character. There were bullet holes all around him, but he didn’t have a scratch on him! 🤣 Since then, I’ve had a lot of weapons training. One advanced drill is to throw yourself to the side, roll completely over, and come up on one knee in a position to fire. So, that is probably what I would do. Keep in mind that the perpetrator is also in a live fire situation. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2026, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-prioritizing-their-own-personal-safety-over-that-of-the-public/1033900/188 "2026-10-20T21:29:10Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Incredibly how ingrained the idea that America is overpoliced is on both sides of the aisle when the truth appears to be the exact opposite. We are under_staffed_ in police vs. e.g. Europe. But generally speaking the police we have evidently operate in a much more heavy-handed and therefore counterproductive manner than those same police in e.g. Europe. We are over_aggressively_ policed vs them. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2026, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-prioritizing-their-own-personal-safety-over-that-of-the-public/1033900/189 "2026-10-20T21:31:00Z")
Right, but Gladwell makes a pretty compelling case that this is because there are too few police officers, not too many. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2026, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-prioritizing-their-own-personal-safety-over-that-of-the-public/1033900/190 "2026-10-20T21:38:07Z")
I would certainly make a deal that in exchange for wholesale replacement of the current forces workers, we’ll build the all new ones from scratch twice as big as the old ones. That’s only after we consign MAGA and MAGA sympathy to the dustbin of history. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2026, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-prioritizing-their-own-personal-safety-over-that-of-the-public/1033900/191 "2026-10-20T21:42:49Z")
> [@robby](#): > > That would indeed be a tragedy. But maybe the police could instead back off and not put themselves in a situation where they are likely to be hit? Behind a group of school children would fit your criteria. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2026, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-prioritizing-their-own-personal-safety-over-that-of-the-public/1033900/192 "2026-10-20T22:03:01Z")
As alluded to by @robby’s mention about Flint MI, it takes manpower to be able to afford the time and care for nuanced policing, as opposed to riding into town like a cowboy, shootin’ them as needs killin’, and riding off again. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2026, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-prioritizing-their-own-personal-safety-over-that-of-the-public/1033900/193 "2026-10-20T22:23:41Z")
Yep. Hence my next post after the one you replied to. We’re going to have to depopulate ICE real soon here. That might be a salutory first step on the road away from Fascism. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2026, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-prioritizing-their-own-personal-safety-over-that-of-the-public/1033900/194 "2026-10-20T22:24:15Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > > [@robby](#): > > > > That would indeed be a tragedy. But maybe the police could instead back off and not put themselves in a situation where they are likely to be hit? > > Behind a group of school children would fit your criteria. As I believe I’ve said elsewhere in the thread, the presence of bystanders either at the scene or nearby changes the calculus. Or hostages, for that matter. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2026, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-prioritizing-their-own-personal-safety-over-that-of-the-public/1033900/195 "2026-10-20T23:12:38Z")
What I’ve heard from a number of cops I know is that there are not sufficient numbers of people who want to be cops. Can LEOs in this thread confirm or refute this? ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2026, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-prioritizing-their-own-personal-safety-over-that-of-the-public/1033900/196 "2026-10-21T00:26:45Z")
Every vacancy in our town draws literally hundreds of QUALIFIED applicants. Partly because the qualifications on paper are very low. The listed qualifications are pretty my self declared, check the box qualifications (e.g. “Ability to conduct interviews”) on which you self rate on a scale of 1-5. Literally everyone checks 5 on every single box. No one has any experience that is really relevant. Unless you consider some military experiences to be relevant. Most of the successful applicants are veterans. Almost all have fathers or uncles (often both, and grandparents) who are or were police officers. The last one is the son of the Fire Chief. I mean what are the chances that out of hundreds of applicants the best candidate would be so closely related to the jointly highest ranking official in the building? I don’t believe any of the patrol officers we have hired in the last ten years had any college at the time they were hired. Maybe in the biggest cities, there is a shortage of qualified applicants. But that’s not my experience in suburban municipalities. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2026, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-prioritizing-their-own-personal-safety-over-that-of-the-public/1033900/197 "2026-10-21T01:56:12Z")
Sufficient numbers to do what, exactly? Those officials that say that there just aren’t enough officers really have to say just what they want the officers out there for. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2026, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-prioritizing-their-own-personal-safety-over-that-of-the-public/1033900/198 "2026-10-21T01:59:35Z")
Entire police force (five, plus chief, plus reservists) of Milner GA resigns. No details yet on just what the dispute was over. I presume it’s either the city council calling the police to account, or vice-versa. In situations like this the standard procedure is for the county sheriff’s department to take over responsibilities as best they can. I wonder what by population is the least-policed area in the USA? ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2026, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-prioritizing-their-own-personal-safety-over-that-of-the-public/1033900/199 "2026-10-21T02:17:39Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Sufficient numbers to do what, exactly? Those officials that say that there just aren’t enough officers really have to say just what they want the officers out there for. The [Atlantic article by Malcolm Gladwell](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/2026/10/police-officers-usa-europe/689006/) that was linked to above details what one police chief in Aurora, Colorado would do with more police officers: - Reduce response times to calls where there are holes in coverage - Greatly increased community policing - More officers on patrol instead of only responding to calls, which helps preempt problems before they even start ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2026, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-prioritizing-their-own-personal-safety-over-that-of-the-public/1033900/200 "2026-10-21T02:29:18Z")
Anything in there about sending in trained social workers instead of armed officers when someone on the street is confused, suicidal or looking for a “suicide by cop” solution when they can’t get the help they seek and/or need? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-prioritizing-their-own-personal-safety-over-that-of-the-public/1033900.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-prioritizing-their-own-personal-safety-over-that-of-the-public/1033900.md?page=11)