# Police prioritizing their own personal safety over that of the public **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 16, 2026, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-prioritizing-their-own-personal-safety-over-that-of-the-public/1033900 "2026-10-16T20:24:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2026, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-prioritizing-their-own-personal-safety-over-that-of-the-public/1033900/21 "2026-10-17T02:42:35Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > I’ve watched countless LEO-interactions videos, and the only only logical conclusions is that they’re a gang. If posters went on ride-alongs with police officers instead of relying on YouTube and TikTok videos, their perspectives might change. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2026, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-prioritizing-their-own-personal-safety-over-that-of-the-public/1033900/22 "2026-10-17T02:44:52Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > > [@robby](#): > > > > It seems stupid to you because it is ingrained in you (and our society) that nothing is more important than the police officer’s personal safety. > > Oh, no. I think this standard applies to anyone not just police officers. Someone pointing a gun at you is a reasonable cause for you to be in imminent fear of grevious bodily harm or death. Requiring someone, anyone, to allow another person to shoot at them first before they can defend themselves is unreasonable. I accept that this is your belief, but I don’t think there’s any middle ground here, so there’s nothing more to discuss. If someone threatens me, or even goes so far as to point a gun at me, and I immediately pull out my own gun and empty the magazine into them, I am certain to be arrested and tried for murder. And a jury will then decide if I was justified in responding with deadly force or not. But a police officer can do the same thing and is exceedingly unlikely to be charged, much less tried for murder. Because the courts have ruled that the LEO need only say he was in fear for his life. There’s something wrong with that, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2026, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-prioritizing-their-own-personal-safety-over-that-of-the-public/1033900/23 "2026-10-17T03:13:27Z")
> [@robby](#): > > If someone threatens me, or even goes so far as to point a gun at me, and I immediately pull out my own gun and empty the magazine into them, I am certain to be arrested and tried for murder. And a jury will then decide if I was justified in responding with deadly force or not. One of my neighbors killed a home invader and he wasn’t arrested or tried. Another neighbor, in a different neighborhood, shot a man at her front door and she wasn’t arrested or tried. It is not a given that shooting someone will automatically result in an arrest and a trial. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2026, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-prioritizing-their-own-personal-safety-over-that-of-the-public/1033900/24 "2026-10-17T03:45:30Z")
> [@robby](#): > > If someone threatens me, or even goes so far as to point a gun at me, and I immediately pull out my own gun and empty the magazine into them, I am certain to be arrested and tried for murder. And a jury will then decide if I was justified in responding with deadly force or not. This depends very heavily on the state and various “Stand your ground” and “castle” doctrines. In quite a few states you would, of course be investigated- just like Police are when they do a shooting- but not arrested or charged- unless of course it turns out your testimony is flawed, and/or they had no gun and you have a good motive for killing them. > [@robby](#): > > But a police officer can do the same thing and is exceedingly unlikely to be charged, much less tried for murder. Because the courts have ruled that the LEO need only say he was in fear for his life. Because _what is their motive?_ The perp was not sleeping with their wife or anything. When an on duty officer shoots someone it is nearly always to protect their safety and or the publics safety. > [@Jackmannii](#): > > If posters went on ride-alongs with police officers instead of relying on YouTube and TikTok videos, their perspectives might change. When I was on the County Civil Grand Jury, I went on a couple. The San Jose police were very professional. The only dangerous one was a angry homeless man with a length of pipe that had broken a car window. The cop talked him down- and did so very well. In the Other, the officer asked me to stay quite a bit away as it was a domestic disturbance. But again, handled well, just drunken yelling, no one was hurt. A couple moving violations, and a few rousts of homeless sleeping in store doorways. A young man was given a serious warning for urinating in an alley. Try it sometimes. > [@robby](#): > > In my job at a public water and sewer utility, we are required to utilize local police for traffic control on construction projects (so-called “private-duty police”). We get off-duty police who are working overtime. But they don’t actually care a whit about traffic control or public safety. They simply want to get paid $200/hour to sit (and sleep) in their air-conditioned police vehicles with the lights going. And because they refuse to get out of their cars and actually direct traffic, we _also_ have to hire flaggers (i.e. civilian flagmen). I also saw that, and the cops were out directing traffic and warning walkers to go on the other side of the street. They did have coffee and chairs, but I did not see them use either during that period. > [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > And they can do whatever they want because of “qualified immunity.” That is not what qualified immunity means. Police are absolutely subject to the same laws. Qualified immunity means you can not sue that individual cop for doing his lawful duty. You can sue the Police dept, you can sue the City, etc. but not that individual officer. And of course that has to be that way, or else any good officers would be sued on a daily basis by gangsters. And it is not just cops- all government employees have qualified immunity- IRS agents for example. Every time they said a taxpayer owned serious money- lawsuits. And just the legal fess would mean civil servants could not keep their jobs. I will also note that on 9/11 Police and firefighters ran towards the danger, heedless of personal safety, and 72 officers died that day, and nearly 600 more from related injuries= 667 police officers died because they ran towards danger, heedless of their own safety. Also hundreds of firefighters etc. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2026, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-prioritizing-their-own-personal-safety-over-that-of-the-public/1033900/25 "2026-10-17T03:51:14Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > > [@robby](#): > > > > If someone threatens me, or even goes so far as to point a gun at me, and I immediately pull out my own gun and empty the magazine into them, I am certain to be arrested and tried for murder. And a jury will then decide if I was justified in responding with deadly force or not. > > One of my neighbors killed a home invader and he wasn’t arrested or tried. Another neighbor, in a different neighborhood, shot a man at her front door and she wasn’t arrested or tried. It is not a given that shooting someone will automatically result in an arrest and a trial. Granted, there is typically more deference given to people defending their homes from a home invader. What do you think would have happened if either of these altercations had happened in a local park? Or if a homeowner uses deadly force on their doorstep to a pollster holding a clipboard they’ve supposedly mistaken for a gun? Whereas police always seem to get a pass. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2026, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-prioritizing-their-own-personal-safety-over-that-of-the-public/1033900/26 "2026-10-17T03:54:54Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > > [@robby](#): > > > > But a police officer can do the same thing and is exceedingly unlikely to be charged, much less tried for murder. Because the courts have ruled that the LEO need only say he was in fear for his life. > > Because _what is their motive?_ The perp was not sleeping with their wife or anything. When an on duty officer shoots someone it is nearly always to protect their safety and or the publics safety. I gave links to three examples upthread to cases in which police officers shot someone for no good reason whatsoever. There are thousands of these cases nationwide. > [@DrDeth](#): > > I will also note that on 9/11 Police and firefighters ran towards the danger, heedless of personal safety, and 72 officers died that day, and nearly 600 more from related injuries= 667 police officers died because they ran towards danger, heedless of their own safety. To their credit. Although I will also note that was a quarter-century and a generation ago. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2026, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-prioritizing-their-own-personal-safety-over-that-of-the-public/1033900/27 "2026-10-17T04:07:31Z")
> [@robby](#): > > Whereas police always seem to get a pass. What is their motive? Maybe they were wrong, sure. Cops are human and they make mistakes. But do you really think some officer woke up and decided to kill a couple of innocent people for no reason? > [@robby](#): > > I gave links to three examples upthread to cases in which police officers shot someone for no good reason whatsoever. #1- the man had a gun and was thought to be reaching for it. Officer Yanez was charged, and the 12 members of the jury voted “Not Guilty”. #2- he had a VERY realistic airsoft pistol, and instead of putting his hands up, he reached into his waistband and pulled out the gun’. Yes, it was a mostly harmless “toy”, but the officers did not know that. **The Grand Jury declined to indict.** It was fully investigated. This was an error, but understandable. #3- it was dark- the cops yelled- _Hey, show me your hands. Stop. Stop._ Instead the man pulled out his cellphone and held it out in front of him. Again, an error, but understandable. In the video it can not be seen it was NOT a gun. > On September 26, 2019, US attorney [McGregor Scott](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McGregor_Scott "McGregor Scott") and the [Federal Bureau of Investigation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Bureau_of_Investigation "Federal Bureau of Investigation") (FBI) announced there was “insufficient evidence” to bring federal civil right charges against the officers. So not just local authorities, The FBI was brought in At the time, the officers thought they had good reasons to use deadly force. In 20/20 hindsight- not so much. . ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2026, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-prioritizing-their-own-personal-safety-over-that-of-the-public/1033900/28 "2026-10-17T04:11:38Z")
> [@robby](#): > > What do you think would have happened if either of these altercations had happened in a local park? What I would expect to happen is the police show up, do a cursory investigation, and decide on what the best course of action is. It might very well be to arrest someone but they might wait for a more thorough investigation before coming to that conclusion. Look, you are simply wrong that shooting someone is automatically going to result in your immediate arrest. Florida alone provides plenty of evidence to disprove your premise. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2026, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-prioritizing-their-own-personal-safety-over-that-of-the-public/1033900/29 "2026-10-17T04:14:37Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > Look, you are simply wrong that shooting someone is automatically going to result in your immediate arrest. Florida alone provides plenty of evidence to disprove your premise. They will take your statement and take that firearm as evidence. They will investigate. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2026, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-prioritizing-their-own-personal-safety-over-that-of-the-public/1033900/30 "2026-10-17T04:22:34Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > What is their motive? Maybe they were wrong, sure. Cops are human and they make mistakes. But do you really think some officer woke up and decided to kill a couple of innocent people for no reason? I suspect their motivation is fear. The fact is that most people that police encounter are not actually planning to engage in a gunfight with them. But police have been thoroughly indoctrinated into the idea that they have to immediately react with overwhelming deadly force to anything they perceive as as a threat. And this makes the populace as a whole, including law-abiding people like me, fear and distrust the police. > [@DrDeth](#): > > #1- the man had a gun and was thought to be reaching for it. Officer Yanez was charged, and the 12 members of the jury voted “Not Guilty”. > > #2- he had a VERY realistic airsoft pistol, and instead of putting his hands up, he reached into his waistband and pulled out the gun’. Yes, it was a mostly harmless “toy”, but the officers did not know that. **The Grand Jury declined to indict.** It was fully investigated. This was an error, but understandable. > > #3- it was dark- the cops yelled- _Hey, show me your hands. Stop. Stop._ Instead the man pulled out his cellphone and held it out in front of him. Again, an error, but understandable. In the video it can not be seen it was NOT a gun. > > > On September 26, 2019, US attorney [McGregor Scott](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McGregor_Scott "McGregor Scott") and the [Federal Bureau of Investigation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Bureau_of_Investigation "Federal Bureau of Investigation") (FBI) announced there was “insufficient evidence” to bring federal civil right charges against the officers. So not just local authorities, The FBI was brought in > > At the time, the officers thought they had good reasons to use deadly force. In 20/20 hindsight- not so much. . All of these deaths (and thousands of similar deaths) could have been prevented if LEOs were prohibited from killing people just because they saw (or thought they saw) a gun. Or someone supposedly reaching for what _might_ be a gun. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2026, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-prioritizing-their-own-personal-safety-over-that-of-the-public/1033900/31 "2026-10-17T04:24:48Z")
> [@robby](#): > > All of these deaths (and thousands of similar deaths) could have been prevented if LEOs were prohibited from killing people just because they saw (or thought they saw) a gun. Or someone supposedly reaching for what _might_ be a gun. That is exactly when Police have to use deadly force. You can not insist they let the perp take the first shot. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2026, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-prioritizing-their-own-personal-safety-over-that-of-the-public/1033900/32 "2026-10-17T04:29:39Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > Look, you are simply wrong that shooting someone is automatically going to result in your immediate arrest. Florida alone provides plenty of evidence to disprove your premise. It obviously depends on the state. I live in Connecticut, and I have a pistol permit. As part of the required firearms safety course the instructor made a point of saying that if you get into an altercation involving firearms in the State of Connecticut, you can expect to be arrested. Regardless of the state, however, it undeniable that a civilian is far more likely to be arrested than a police officer for an altercation involving deadly force, even if the officer was clearly mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2026, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-prioritizing-their-own-personal-safety-over-that-of-the-public/1033900/33 "2026-10-17T04:33:29Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > > [@robby](#): > > > > All of these deaths (and thousands of similar deaths) could have been prevented if LEOs were prohibited from killing people just because they saw (or thought they saw) a gun. Or someone supposedly reaching for what _might_ be a gun. > > That is exactly when Police have to use deadly force. Why, exactly? > [@DrDeth](#): > > You can not insist they let the perp take the first shot. Why not? ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2026, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-prioritizing-their-own-personal-safety-over-that-of-the-public/1033900/34 "2026-10-17T04:49:38Z")
Here’s the thing. I think there are far more instances of police unnecessarily using deadly force against people than there are of people taking potshots at the police. Statistics seem to bear this out. In a typical year, police shoot and kill **1,200-1,300** people. Whereas **43** officers were feloniously killed with a firearm in 2025. That is a huge disparity. And I wonder if some of those deaths weren’t in self-defense because police are so quick to jump to the use of deadly force. Cites: > **[2025 Police Violence Report](https://policeviolencereport.org/)** > > Comprehensive review of killings by police in 2025. > **[Officers%20Killed%20and%20Assaulted%20in%20the%20Line%20of%20Duty%2C%202025.pdf](https://cde.ucr.cjis.gov/LATEST/resources/reports/Officers%20Killed%20and%20Assaulted%20in%20the%20Line%20of%20Duty%2C%202025.pdf)** ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2026, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-prioritizing-their-own-personal-safety-over-that-of-the-public/1033900/35 "2026-10-17T07:20:03Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > If posters went on ride-alongs with police officers instead of relying on YouTube and TikTok videos, their perspectives might change. If they did that, they for the most part would be bored shitless, and/or they wouldn’t get the true gist of what goes on because the police would be in “performance mode”. The police are nowhere near the top of the list when it comes to dangerous work, btw. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-prioritizing-their-own-personal-safety-over-that-of-the-public/1033900.md?page=1)