Not entirely sure a sitcom set in a police station counts, but you’re right. Barney Miller lightly touched on these psuedo-dramatic elements before Hill Street happened.
Police Story was doing that a decade before Hill Street Blues debuted.
There’s certainly a huge difference in pace.
Today, it’s rare any given scene lasts more than a few minutes at a time, and if something does require a very long scene, they still break it up somehow. Older shows like The Rockford Files and Murder, She Wrote are glacial in comparison. Columbo episodes were 2 hours with commercials and ran on a rotation with other series as a weekly NBC Mystery Movie.
Even shows that were more action-oriented, like Magnum PI or CHiPs have long series of scenes in every episode where basically nothing really happens.
Would action-based cop shows count as a fourth basic type?
Homicide spanned genres – a procedural, a mystery, and a workplace show. Often all three in one episode.
Don’t forget the fifth type—police musicals like COP ROCK !!!
Dammit, I had managed to forget that.
I wish I Could forget it!!!
It depends. In the old days you had a lot of fairly cheesy cop shows that could be solved by a nine-year-old, and that was their aim, plus a couple of soaps that happened to be set in a detective environment. I’m not going to name a lot of shows because I’m in the UK and the shows that were big here weren’t always big over the pond, and vice versa. (I’ve only heard of Adam-12 on this board).
These days we have way more shows, so they’ve diversified.
We now have “cosy crime” (some Christie adaptations, though actually she was brilliant; Midsommer Murders; Death in Paradise; probably more because I don’t watch them)
And more serious but not taxing crime procedurals, often with an ensemble cast (NCIS, the various versions of L&O and CSI, White Collar, a ton of others)genuine dramas that happen to include crime (Broadchurch, Vera, Line of Duty - weirdly I can only think of UK dramas and Scandi-noir but I think I’m being unjust there).
So there are, basically, more shows overall.
And the main difference is the change that happened to TV shows overall in the early 2000s - story arcs. No re-set after every episode. Only the cosy crime dramas do that now, but they telegraph their cheesiness like a fart in the lobby of a French restaurant.
Which shows other than Columbo did that? I can’t think of any classic shows or modern either, though with the modern ones I might just not be aware of them. (Especially some more niche American ones that never got showed internationally - I’ve only heard of Adam 12 on here).
That, and Peter Falk, are one of the reasons Columbo is respected way more than most older detective shows. He, and the show, did it differently.
NO mention of NYPD Blue??? It was ground-breaking, mesmerizing, and often suspenseful when they were interviewing the ‘skells’. A lot of the cases were a bit similar over many years, but the backstories of the characters made you really feel like you knew them.
Hawaii 5-0, Today’s FBI, Streets of San Francisco… The crime usually took place in the first scene with a clear depiction of the perpetrators (usually very recognizable guest stars - Like the DiCaprio character in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood ) These shows were rarely mysteries from the audience’s perspective.
Hill Street Blues did it all first (It also was one of the first shows to do story arcs). Bochco just honed his formula.
That’s pretty much true when comparing most television programs as well as movies from the 70s and 80s to today. Go watch 1980s The Changeling starring George C. Scott. Almost every scene either establishes something important or moves the plot along but it moves at a glacial pace compared to today.
on hallmark mysteries and movies they run through Colombo in the morning every few months and my mentally disabled cousin loves the show only second to star trek which she has all the original series on DVD
Well, they showed the one where Leonard Nimoy was a doctor that killed a few people that were in his way … well it caused a problem because Spock was a good guy … it took a few hours for her to calm down …it was funny and not ta the same time so for the longest time when they re ran that one we made sure she watched something else …
And the saddest barney miller ep is after fish retired he came back a couple of seasons later and he’s catching up with everyone and offer advice and such but he’s actually bored and depressed and him and barney discuss this
and he feels better until the end where there’s a bank robbery or something and there all needed so there grabbing shotguns and bp vest and fish is watching them until he’s just standing totally alone I with a sad look on his face In the squad room and you get the feeling of total emptiness as the show ends they didn’t even have the applause or end of show joke or anything just poor fish and the effect of the job and the world passing him by …
My dad always said you never appreciated adam 12 or dragnet until you lived in ca for a few years and realized " why yes e have more than our fair share of weirdos native and imported "
My pet wild ass theory is that none of the cases are real. The show is called Murder, She Wrote and is about a crime novelist, after all.
If there were that may murders in that one little town of Cabot Cove, I think most people would have moved out.
the funny thing is when Angela Lansbury wanted to slow down a bit one season they had filmed versions of the books she wrote in character … and they were dumber than the normal show plotlines and the show was almost cancelled because people skipped them as much as possible
I’ll have to take your word for it because I don’t know those shows enough to say. (Hawaii Five-O was big in the UK but I was a little too young, and it wasn’t repeated much. I’ve only heard of Streets and have never heard of the other one).
With Columbo what was notable was that Columbo seemed to know who’d done it, as well as us.
He knew, we knew he knew, and at some point the bad guy knew he knew, so it was just us watching the final part of the chase. Like a nature programme where the lion has already sighted the wounded giraffe, except this time you want them to be caught.
The mystery part was how Columbo figured out the giraf- killer committed the crime and could actually prove it enough to arrest them.
A modern version would not have an invisible Mrs Columbo and interchangeable cops. I think that’s one of the main differences between modern shows and older shows.
Though Columbo was unusual in essentially giving its main character essentially no back story at all - even the Mrs Columbo and the dog stuff sometimes seemed like an act.
I remember those - she basically introduced them and did a little bit of voice-over, right?
The funny thing is, Lansbury is based on Miss Marple, and a few of the Miss Marple stories have her basically as a background character. She has more involvement than Lansbury, but not by much. So in a way they were continuing with their trope.
Yep those are the ones … although I’m told someone had ghostwritten some jb fletcher books a few years ago …
the other thing about murder she wrote is the evolution of the character in the beginning she was this sorta shy provincial retired English teacher who was shocked by everything …by the end, she was a nicer version of Lennie Briscoe …someone could have poisoned someone during 2 girl porn movie and it wouldn’t of phased her … shed of simply made a light joke about how progressive things had become and solved the case anyways …
Maybe by then shed of learned how to correctly play SpyHunter …
A modern version would not have an invisible Mrs Columbo and interchangeable cops. I think that’s one of the main differences between modern shows and older shows.
Though Columbo was unusual in essentially giving its main character essentially no back story at all - even the Mrs Columbo and the dog stuff sometimes seemed like an act…
Something notable on this point. If you get a chance watch either of the two pilot episodes (yes, there were two made. One in 1968 when it was contemplated as a standalone series and a second one made in 1971 when it joined the lineup of the NBC Sunday Night Mystery show). The writers seemed to be cognizant of this point when establishing the character. Both shows had the perpetrators make some variant of a speech where they said “you know, Columbo, you walk around with your prop cigar and rumpled trench coat, pretending to be forgetful and nattering about ‘Mrs. Columbo’s’ opinions of you, but I can see you’re actually quite intelligent and this act is intended to lure your quarry into a false sense of security until you can spring your trap.”
The one thing, procedural wise, that drives me crazy is the Miranda thing. And it’s gotten even worse in the last 30 years. The cops rattle off Miranda as soon as the cuffs are on. Hell, sometimes they’re fighting with the subject to get cuffs on and they’re reciting it while they’re huffing and puffing from exhaustion. It’s just not done that way.
IIRC Joe Friday waited until the in custody subject was being interviewed before reading them their rights which is how it is actually done in real life. I think Webb did a lot of research, listening to real police consultants, and opted for realism over the cliche drama police shows today go for. And it worked. Great show!