# Police response during mass shooting event {Not Gun Control, 2nd Amendment or Politics} **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 26, 2022, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165 "2022-05-26T18:28:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/181 "2022-05-28T14:41:33Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > How many police were available to deal with the situation? Has that been reported in any stories? Google isn’t helping me. > > I used to live in a small town in South Texas, pop. ~8,500, and the town employed SIX police officers. > > What other law enforcement agencies sent members when it became apparent that there was an active shooter? Here’s the answer to my question: > **[Tiny school police force in Uvalde took charge, then failed to go in](https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/05/27/uvalde-police-school-chief/?pwapi_token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWJpZCI6IjYyMDc3NTgiLCJyZWFzb24iOiJnaWZ0IiwibmJmIjoxNjUzNzQ4NzcyLCJpc3MiOiJzdWJzY3JpcHRpb25zIiwiZXhwIjoxNjU0OTU4MzcyLCJpYXQiOjE2NTM3NDg3NzIsImp0aSI6IjhiOWJjMjZkLWQ3ODEtNDkxOC05NWFlLTQwYzU2MzIxZTA0NCIsInVybCI6Imh0dHBzOi8vd3d3Lndhc2hpbmd0b25wb3N0LmNvbS9uYXRpb24vMjAyMi8wNS8yNy91dmFsZGUtcG9saWNlLXNjaG9vbC1jaGllZi8ifQ.0d9awzIast23hqrnmgaMsF1w3SqxER_TL_TX24KgFgI&itid=gfta)** > > Here's what we know about the police department and school police officers in Uvalde, Tex., and their response to the mass shooting. > The police response to the [Texas school massacre](https://www.washingtonpost.com/school-shootings/?itid=hp-banner-main&itid=lk_inline_manual_2) was led by the chief of a six-officer police department that oversees about eight schools. The first officers on the scene were from the Uvalde city police force, which has a part-time SWAT team and about 40 officers on the payroll. The school district police force had six police officers. The city police force had 40 police officers and a “part-time SWAT team” (whatever that is). > But authorities made clear Friday that [many other things went wrong](https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/05/27/texas-shooting-response/?itid=lk_inline_manual_5) as those small police departments were joined by state, local and federal law enforcement agencies in the town of 16,000. The story doesn’t say how many outside police came, but very early on, that became irrelevant IMHO. * * * It may be hard for citizens of big or ginormous cities to imagine a full-time police force of only 40 individuals, or in the town where I lived, 6 police. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/182 "2022-05-28T14:45:11Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > > [@DavidNRockies](#): > > > > I know either virtually nothing or literally nothing about this stuff > > And to some extent that was true for the responding officers. They did not know their enemy or the environment, but that’s the job. At the moment of contact they have to decide whether they are playing at COPS or actually being COPS. While urban police have access to special units like the SWAT mentioned above, is it really true that “cops” have any kind of training in urban warfare, close-quarters combat, room breaching and clearing tactics, use of suppressive fire and grenades, etc.? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/183 "2022-05-28T14:46:39Z")
If they don’t have that training, what were they doing with their 40% share of the town’s total budget? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/184 "2022-05-28T14:49:24Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > Where did I say they signed a contract? It is implicit in taking the job. An enlisted military contract doesn’t specifically say anything being put in harm’s way either but, “Nah, I’m not gonna help you assault that pillbox, sergeant. It looks too dangerous,” would not be received well. There is no such implicit agreement. The military is a different subject. I don’t know the details of military law and can’t address but I’m sure you understand the police are not the military. > [@DesertDog](#): > > So they lied, then. Take away their guns and their police powers, give them a Segway, and let them be the safe, mall cops they want to be, then. Drop by your local cop shop and try that line on them, and listen to what they have to say. A bunch of people have lied about the police, and those lies were mainly the work of the police and politicians. > [@DesertDog](#): > > Read Grossman’s essay. He puts it far more elegantly than I can. You really need to work on your writing skill if you find that elegant. People are not animals. Psycho killers would wish to aspire to the level of those animals but that illustrates the problem of simplistic solutions based on dehumanizing people who do not deserve. The police who believe they are wolves and act that way are a danger to this country. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/185 "2022-05-28T14:52:57Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > People are not animals. Agreed. I was not impressed by that article. Very condescending and implicitly suggesting that police are superior to others. That’s a bad mind-set. Any article that equates the majority of the population to sheep is not worth reading. It’s not that far from “Wake up, sheeple!” in its condescending nature. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/186 "2022-05-28T14:56:07Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > If they don’t have that training, what were they doing with their 40% share of the town’s total budget? Probably just getting by in providing police services. And what magic do you think occurs when cops take a 2 day course in a classroom? The basic police training they all cops receive isn’t sufficient to keep them from violating people’s rights frequently in what should be harmless interactions with the police so why should they be expected to take this brief course and handle the worst of circumstances as a result? The man who made the decision not to breach that classroom right away is said to have 30 years of law enforcement experience. 30 years of holding a public service job is by no means a measure of competence. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/187 "2022-05-28T15:00:53Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > why should they be expected to take this brief course and handle the worst of circumstances Because that is the job description. It is why they are given a uniform, a weapon, life and death authority over citizens and $60,000 a year. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/188 "2022-05-28T15:18:56Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > Because that is the job description. It is why they are given a uniform, a weapon, life and death authority over citizens and $60,000 a year. Oh, I forgot people always do what is in their job description. And it doesn’t matter if they job description is impossible to follow, they’ll always do it anyway. Job descriptions are magic! ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/189 "2022-05-28T15:34:37Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Job descriptions are magic! No, they are a contract that sometimes holds up in court. Let’s put it in context: A child attempting to get an education is smearing herself with a dead friends blood and calling 911 to plead for help At the same time an officer who accepts $60,000 a year to protect her is withdrawing from her because he was grazed ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/190 "2022-05-28T15:37:17Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > A bunch of people have lied about the police, and those lies were mainly the work of the police and politicians So, as I said before, take away their police powers and guns then. Defund them in the pejorative sense the right has foisted upon us instead of the original meaning if they refuse to do the job _they_ told us they were going to do. At least then they won’t be suppressing people to maintain the status quo of the past. > [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Very condescending and implicitly suggesting that police are superior to others. That’s a bad mind-set. Any article that equates the majority of the population to sheep is not worth reading. When he _specifically_ says, “Understand that there is nothing morally superior about being a sheepdog; it is just what you choose to be.”? and further, “[Sheep] are kind, gentle, productive creatures who can only hurt one another by accident.” If everybody was a sheepdog they’d just be guarding each other, not producing anything. Perhaps it’s where I’m coming from but I don’t get a “sheeple” vibe at all. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/191 "2022-05-28T15:42:11Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > So, as I said before, take away their police powers and guns then. Defund them in the pejorative sense the right has foisted upon us instead of the original meaning if they refuse to do the job _they_ told us they were going to do. At least then they won’t be suppressing people to maintain the status quo of the past. I agree generally, however I think the job they are supposed to promise to do should be different and have more to do with serving the needs of the public instead of themselves and politicians, but then we are verging off the course set for the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/192 "2022-05-28T15:54:21Z")
If the issue is that the police force of this town is too small for proper training, then the solution is regional police forces, to which the small towns all contribute and get the benefits of. If they claim to have a SWAT team, as their fancy pix show, then it’s a waste of money. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/193 "2022-05-28T15:57:23Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > the right has foisted upon us **Modnote** : Keep politics out of this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/194 "2022-05-28T16:01:19Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > , “[Sheep] are kind, gentle, productive creatures who can only hurt one another by accident.” Not human, in other words. Sorry, I find it’s a condescending metaphor that verges on insulting. YMMV, obviously. ---
**Author:** ![Drsunflower1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drsunflower1/32/12711_2.png) [@Drsunflower1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drsunflower1)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/195 "2022-05-28T16:04:49Z")
The condescending part is imo in the fact that sheep are in denial of evil. > **Hid Political Jab** > > And the sheepdogs are the ones “Who Know”. Thus underhandedly also justifying people carrying arms around the sheep. He’s basically saying the same as Cruz and Trump did at the NRA convention. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/196 "2022-05-28T16:08:34Z")
Thanks for the clarification. I failed to understand any of it. > **Hid reply to above** > > Cruz and Trump are shepherds. They fuck the sheep. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/197 "2022-05-28T16:09:40Z")
---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/198 "2022-05-28T16:12:18Z")
**KEEP POLITICS OUT OF THIS THREAD.** **Warning** for **Drsunflower1** who went way past a modnote with this one. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/199 "2022-05-28T16:25:03Z")
This topic was automatically opened after 11 minutes. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/200 "2022-05-28T16:38:57Z")
> So to those telling us not to question the local police response because they were doing what they could with limited information … We now learn that other agents on the scene acted on their own, against the orders of those local police, and successfully ended the crisis. You will forgive my reluctance to give credence to the argument that the slow response was somehow justified. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165.md?page=11)