# Police response during mass shooting event {Not Gun Control, 2nd Amendment or Politics} **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 26, 2022, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165 "2022-05-26T18:28:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/281 "2022-05-29T03:01:24Z")
So how was the door opened? Key? lock shot up? 20 lb sledge to the door knob? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/282 "2022-05-29T03:01:46Z")
What has been reported is that a janitor showed up with a key, after a long delay. Then BORTAC went in. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/283 "2022-05-29T03:20:17Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > The good news is that since shots are loud and mostly unmistakable and definitely attention attracting, it is highly likely they’ll be reported timely to 911 and/or heard directly by any LEO on scene, whether they’re there by regular duty assignment, by coincidence, or by dispatch to a call. Yeah, IDK. A gunshot through walls can sound an awful lot like a hammer coming down on wood, or a jackhammer on concrete. To the point that when I hear hammering/construction, my first thought is often that it’s gunfire. By contrast, perhaps when normal people hear gunfire attenuated by a wall or walls, their first thought is that it’s construction nearby? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/284 "2022-05-29T03:25:20Z")
could the door be opened without a key and how much time after getting the key did they wait to enter? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/285 "2022-05-29T03:29:28Z")
The timeline provided by the Texas Department of Public Safety said they used the key at 12:50pm to enter the classroom and kill him but does not make clear _when_ they received the key. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/286 "2022-05-29T03:31:25Z")
If there was no delay, they would have outright said so. The fact that they are not outright saying so tells me they want the public to assume so they won’t have to lie. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/287 "2022-05-29T03:32:57Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > could the door be opened without a key I assume you mean by using a battering ram or similar device? One would assume so, but that remains, at this time, unknown. What is known is that the LEOs did NOT try to open the door until they had a key. And that is the heart of the controversy. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/288 "2022-05-29T03:34:14Z")
As someone pointed out previously, the classroom door probably opened into the hallway, which means a battering ram would not have worked. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/289 "2022-05-29T03:37:52Z")
Someone posted a map showing that the police station is only two minutes away. Although the idea that they had a full-time SWAT team has been debunked, wouldn’t you still think that a police station would have some means to breach a door in its equipment? ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/290 "2022-05-29T03:42:45Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > wouldn’t you still think that a police station would have some means to breach a door in its equipment? Yeah, it took me at least 2 minutes of Googling to find this [treatise on breaching.](https://www.police1.com/police-products/tactical/tactical-entry-tools/articles/breaching-which-option-is-best-for-your-team-93B5EuCp5IHv95c1/) ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/291 "2022-05-29T03:47:34Z")
It looks like the optimal means would have been a shotgun with a special round (I recall @MikeF described this). It doesn’t sound all that complicated or specialized. Not in the back of every squad car, but wouldn’t a police station have one in its equipment? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/292 "2022-05-29T04:00:09Z")
Just a data point (or not): My classroom door is metal. The jamb is metal. The lock plate is metal. You are **not** going to “blow the lock” on that door, breacher rounds or not. Blow holes in the door? Sure. Disable the panic bar holding the door closed. Unlikely. Probably just jam the door closed tighter. Just sayin’. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/293 "2022-05-29T04:01:46Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Disable the panic bar holding the door closed. Well it cannot have had this, or the key would not have opened it either, right? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/294 "2022-05-29T04:05:10Z")
Sure it would. That’s how I open the door in the morning. I don’t know about Texas, but in California _all doors_ leading to student areas have to be equipped with crash bars. Hit the bar, it cams the latch and the door opens. No knobs or such. Like this: [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/5AZwGZubymM/hqdefault.jpg) ](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/5AZwGZubymM/hqdefault.jpg) Sorry if my use of the slang “panic bar” threw your perception. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/295 "2022-05-29T04:06:49Z")
Ah, right. I was imagining a more substantial version of the thing you have on hotel room doors that mechanically keep people out even if the door is unlocked. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/296 "2022-05-29T04:10:56Z")
The trouble is a simple hex key can lock it in the “open” position, not noticeable unless you look for it from the inside, and _totally_ not noticeable if seen from the outside by roving patrol, unlike a propped open door. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/297 "2022-05-29T04:11:16Z")
If only there were dozens of YouTube videos of how easy it is to bypass crash bars. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/298 "2022-05-29T04:11:35Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > I assume you mean by using a battering ram or similar device? One would assume so, but that remains, at this time, unknown. > > What is known is that the LEOs did NOT try to open the door until they had a key. > > And that is the heart of the controversy. That would explain the controversy. As I stated before all the school doors I’ve ever seen were heavy duty doors that opened out into the hallway which means there’s a frame on the inboard side that it seats against. A battering ram works if the door opens inwards but I don’t see it working on an industrial door that opens outwards. If the door has a standard latchbolt without a security plate then they would have had the option of jimmying the latch. If it was a [deadlatch](https://img.community.ui.com/bce88b1d-c688-4bb3-aeb6-7b550ab47675/answers/6fefa90c-48b1-4c1f-b168-4ee21f344f61/741738f3-7123-4f73-bac8-adb13dc7d987) then it’s designed with a sliding pin to resist jimmying. If the lock could be jimmied then the police would need the training on how to do it. If there are kids inside and there is no active shooting then you want to open the door quickly without any fanfare to take out shooter. Of course, if there’s active shooting then it doesn’t matter how the door is breached assuming it can be. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/299 "2022-05-29T04:13:29Z")
Wouldn’t need them to get into my room. The door may be bank-like, but it’s all of 3 inches from 2 floor-to-ceiling windows, each about 3 feet wide. I feel so secure. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/300 "2022-05-29T04:15:36Z")
they could drive a truck into the outside wall but the shooter will see that coming and may finish off any kids that are alive. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165.md?page=16)