# Police response during mass shooting event {Not Gun Control, 2nd Amendment or Politics} **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 26, 2022, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165 "2022-05-26T18:28:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![JaneDoe42](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/janedoe42/32/14104_2.png) [@JaneDoe42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JaneDoe42)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/301 "2022-05-29T04:32:56Z")
They could shoot through the windows. Why do you keep harping on the door and walls when each room had two BIG windows. I’m half crippled and I could have walked around the building and seen what was going on THROUGH THE REGULAR GLASS WINDOWS. My eyes aren’t as good as they once were, but scoped long guns make up for that. I give up. You have your own reality that doesn’t have any connection to real life. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/302 "2022-05-29T04:40:01Z")
> [@JaneDoe42](#): > > {…} You have your own reality that doesn’t have any connection to real life. I see you’ve met Magiver. Up Next: Robot monkeys in miniature tunneling machines dropped in by parachute on miniature electric motorcycles so as to not give away their approach! ---
**Author:** ![JaneDoe42](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/janedoe42/32/14104_2.png) [@JaneDoe42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JaneDoe42)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/303 "2022-05-29T05:03:27Z")
What can I say, I usually hang out in the MMP and pet pic threads. I know better now and will not waste my time with willfully blind people anymore. As a retired government worker who quit smoking a pack of cigarettes a day shortly after retiring, I have to say that I have spent way too long standing around the back of large buildings. If I was looking for the knox box, I’d start at the gas and or electric pipes. They are pretty easy to recognize and are out in the open so emergency responders can find them quickly. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/304 "2022-05-29T05:06:30Z")
Totally unsecure, [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/gfyqhXmGjCg/maxresdefault.jpg "Please Do Not Duplicate Attacking the Knox Box") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfyqhXmGjCg) ---
**Author:** ![JaneDoe42](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/janedoe42/32/14104_2.png) [@JaneDoe42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JaneDoe42)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/305 "2022-05-29T05:34:42Z")
I was using knox box as a generic name. The ones I’m used to seeing are five dial combination locks housed in what looked to be a pretty heavy duty metal box. I never actually messed with one because why would I? but I know that they are very common in Arizona. Texas does things differently. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/306 "2022-05-29T05:46:18Z")
Lordy, you don’t want me to start posting videos of how easy those are to get into . . . without even “dialing” the combination! ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/307 "2022-05-29T05:47:52Z")
> [@JaneDoe42](#): > > They could shoot through the windows. Why do you keep harping on the door and walls when each room had two BIG windows. Can you link to a photo that is showing you this? From all I can find, it looks like the windows have horizontal bars, so you couldn’t get _through_ them by just breaking the glass. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/308 "2022-05-29T05:57:34Z")
[![](https://i.imgur.com/6ouemAb.jpeg) ](https://i.imgur.com/6ouemAb.jpeg) I’m absolutely certain that those ‘’‘bars’‘’ are just extruded aluminum. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/309 "2022-05-29T07:24:09Z")
> [@JaneDoe42](#): > > They could shoot through the windows. Why do you keep harping on the door and walls when each room had two BIG windows. and you think the shooter was standing in front of the window? Was he wearing a large bullseye in your scenario? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/310 "2022-05-29T07:29:49Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > {…} Was he wearing a large bullseye in your scenario? Just a complete WAG but it would probably be the guy pointing this at the children, [![](https://danieldefense.com/media/catalog/product/cache/57787b00c9d0d809fcf82071201be77f/0/2/02-128-02081-047_1_2.jpg) ](https://danieldefense.com/media/catalog/product/cache/57787b00c9d0d809fcf82071201be77f/0/2/02-128-02081-047_1_2.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/311 "2022-05-29T07:36:13Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Up Next: Robot monkeys in miniature tunneling machines dropped in by parachute on miniature electric motorcycles so as to not give away their approach! If only there was a way for you to research stuff before you post your rambling thoughts. [This quiet electric motorcycle is helping Ukrainian snipers fight back against the Russians](https://electrek.co/2022/05/12/this-quiet-electric-motorcycle-is-helping-ukrainian-snipers-fight-back-against-the-russians/) - Mamuka Mamulashvili, commander of the Georgian Legion, a unit in the Ukrainian Army formed of mostly ethnically Georgian soldiers, told [_The War Zone_](https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/commander-in-ukraine-wants-quiet-electric-bikes-for-his-sniper-teams) that he requested the electric motorbikes for his sniper teams. - Mamulashvili explained that his teams required the electric bikes to quietly insert into a target area, engage the enemy from a distance, and then quickly exfiltrate before the Russians answer with artillery strikes on the location. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/312 "2022-05-29T07:40:30Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Just a complete WAG but it would probably be the guy pointing this at the children, while I’m sure you would stand in front of a window I would expect the shooter would avoid being a target himself. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/313 "2022-05-29T07:44:35Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > {…} I would expect the shooter would avoid being a target himself. Yes, while not perfect, dead children can be used like sandbags and piled into a makeshift defensive fighting position. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/314 "2022-05-29T07:50:27Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Yes, while not perfect, dead children can be used like sandbags and piled into a makeshift defensive fighting position. so can live children which would make him less of a target. I suspect he used them as shields. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/315 "2022-05-29T11:56:32Z")
Moderating: > [@JaneDoe42](#): > > You have your own reality that doesn’t have any connection to real life. > [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > I see you’ve met Magiver. > [@Magiver](#): > > If only there was a way for you to research stuff before you post your rambling thoughts. If y’all want to snipe at each other, you know which way the pit is. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/316 "2022-05-29T12:26:13Z")
The police were able to breach the room starting right from when they got there. Most simply, they could have used either the keys they were carrying or the keys in the emergency-response box. And yes, I’m assuming that they had their own keys, because among the first police to arrive were the school district’s police, and absolutely everything school district police do would require them to have their own keys. If they don’t have keys, then they’re pure parasites, siphoning money from the taxpayers to do literally nothing at all (and while I’ll admit that that’s a possibility, it’s not exactly one that exonerates them). If, for some reason, they were so incompetent that they didn’t have keys, or if for some reason their keys didn’t work, then they could have forcibly opened the door. No matter how reinforced the door was (and I’ve seen plenty of flimsy doors in schools, especially underfunded schools), all it takes is one hole anywhere (say, through the glass window in the door), and they can reach in and open it from the inside (and every classroom door must be openable from the inside, for fire safety reasons). And if, against all odds, the door was solid steel with no window, then they could have breached the exterior windows, which we know exist. Even if those bars are something so solid that they can’t get through them, they could reach through them to shoot any point within the room. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/317 "2022-05-29T12:44:38Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > then they’re pure parasites, Call all of the wrecker services in town. They know everybody by first name, and get a wrecker on site. Like this one from Gilberts in Uvalde: [![](https://s.yimg.com/fz/api/res/1.2/D49.VvbtQELz3bS8cwlUPw--~C/YXBwaWQ9c3JjaGRkO2ZpPWZpbGw7aD00Mjg7cHhvZmY9MDtweW9mZj0wO3E9OTU7dz00Mzg-/https://s.yimg.com/bj/1a79/1a79dfa93377e9b30f029b83dd6ddff9.jpg) ](https://s.yimg.com/fz/api/res/1.2/D49.VvbtQELz3bS8cwlUPw--~C/YXBwaWQ9c3JjaGRkO2ZpPWZpbGw7aD00Mjg7cHhvZmY9MDtweW9mZj0wO3E9OTU7dz00Mzg-/https://s.yimg.com/bj/1a79/1a79dfa93377e9b30f029b83dd6ddff9.jpg) Back that mother into the outside wall and take out the whole section. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/318 "2022-05-29T13:01:02Z")
Ulvalde fire department: > **[Facebook - log in or sign up](https://www.facebook.com/)** > > Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know. This one could have made a dent ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/319 "2022-05-29T13:01:07Z")
More criticism from somebody pretty highly placed in the field: > [@](#): > > Thor Eells, executive director of the **[National Tactical Officers Association](https://www.ntoa.org/)** (NTAO), said the commander’s determination was “100% flawed.” A barricade calls for officers to slow down their response, analyze whether the subject is alone and negotiate, he said. > > “If you’re in a classroom with innocent victims and I know that shots have been fired, I need to engage you. Even if you stopped firing, I’m going to make entry into the room so we can begin to administer life-saving aid to any potential victims,” Eells said. [hyperlink added by me] [**SOURCE**](https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/28/us/failure-by-uvalde-police-to-act-quickly-led-to-catastrophic-consequences/index.html) Obviously, there is still a great deal that we don’t know, or know with certainty, but this is (at least) two fairly highly placed ‘industry’ folks who – we can presume – would struggle to give the benefit of the doubt to those who were on the scene. And, apparently, can’t. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/320 "2022-05-29T13:04:37Z")
19 good ole boys in big hats were inside the school giving it a real hard think. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165.md?page=17)