# Police response during mass shooting event {Not Gun Control, 2nd Amendment or Politics} **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 26, 2022, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165 "2022-05-26T18:28:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 33
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2022, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/641 "2022-06-04T20:54:28Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I think the new Sandy Hook school wasn’t built in the exact same spot but elsewhere on the school grounds. Yep, and I thought is was weird then. If I was a seven year old I don’t think switching the playground around with the school would make me feel any safer. It seems to have worked okay for them. > [@Riemann](#): > > I worry that some angry family member might do something stupid and we end up with more people hurt. I hope you are wrong, but it wouldn’t surprise me a bit. All those angry friends and relatives and the police giving wrong answers or no answers is a pot waiting to boil over. > [@What\_Exit](#): > > All those many tears ago; the [San Ysidro McDonalds](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Ysidro_McDonald%27s_massacre) that had the mass murdering berserker was torn down and made into a Park. I’d forgotten that. I do think it’s a good idea. > [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > To what end? We’ve already established they don’t know how to respond to an active shooter. That’s one of those where I started to chuckle and then my mind said" wait a second, that’s true!" > [@silenus](#): > > That way, when you extend the I, it comes between the door and the frame and prevents the crash bar from engaging. Slide it the other way, there is no obstruction and the latch latchs. Very handy. Thanks, I can picture that. Seems like an easy solution too. > [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Hospitals have their own police in the US?!? I don’t think I’ve seen actual police, but I’ve seen this [group](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_Department_of_Health_and_Hospitals_Police) in New York hospitals. Their power only works on hospital grounds, NYPD would do any investigation that came up. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2022, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/642 "2022-06-04T20:57:26Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > So just to clarify, not hesitating made no difference, right? In active shooter training we did at my hospital, they told us that medical shootings tend to be different. Unlike the more opportunistic shooter of a school or a church, a medical shooter may have a specific target. The surgeon the botched my surgery, the nurse that killed my mother…and anybody that gets in my way. This kind of thing. My point being that rushing the shooter may not have as much of an effect in a medial shooting than it does for someone whose plan is to go until they run out of targets or bullets. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2022, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/643 "2022-06-04T21:19:51Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > Some do - although the way [some](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_Department_of_Health_and_Hospitals_Police) [hospital](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_State_Office_of_Mental_Health_Police) police operate , they would possibly more accurately be described as “security”. Code Gray! ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2022, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/644 "2022-06-04T21:28:42Z")
> [@carrps](#): > > Code Gray! And of course “Code Blue” means heroic measures may be required to sustain life because the police are standing around doing nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2022, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/645 "2022-06-04T21:59:00Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I think the new Sandy Hook school wasn’t built in the exact same spot but elsewhere on the school grounds. If that’s not possible in Uvalde, they might instead build elsewhere. Or they will go cheap and do the usual- Transfer students to already crowded nearby schools. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2022, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/646 "2022-06-04T22:00:58Z")
In Newtown, they first transferred the kids to an unused nearby school, until they were able to build the replacement school. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2022, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/647 "2022-06-04T23:19:14Z")
For the record: I have no longer any doubt that the person(s) on the scene first, that took charge of the situation had no business inserting themselves into something like this. This was not (IMHO) a case of limited flexibility of the “doctrine” but clearly about complete incompetence and obstinate reluctance to release control where he/they did not have any. I apologise to anyone I discussed this with, clearly they had a better picture of the events than I had. I failed to grasp that the first responder (who I wanted to cut some slack) was the same person who was the “guy in charge” immediately after the first response. Clearly he had no business trying to control/coordinate the situation from that hallway. Thank you all for your patient responses. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2022, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/648 "2022-06-05T01:51:35Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Hospitals have their own police in the US?!? My daughter is a nurse. She worked in a hospital in Virginia that was “in a bad area”. They had a police substation within their building. There was excitement most nights. Now she is back in western Pennsylvania and they have security, a guy who sleeps most nights. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2022, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/649 "2022-06-05T16:48:22Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > They put the same device on my door last year. Haven’t been able to find an image yet. Picture a capital “I” made of rubber, about 4" long, 2" wide and 1/2" thick. There is a sleeve around the middle of the I, with about an inch of play at each end. So the I can slide back and forth. The sleeve is then mounted on your door above the crash bar, right next to edge. That way, when you extend the I, it comes between the door and the frame and prevents the crash bar from engaging. Slide it the other way, there is no obstruction and the latch latchs. Very handy. > [@mordecaiB](#): > > Thanks, I can picture that. Seems like an easy solution too. What’s wrong with a simple Allen key? The dogging mechanism is there for a reason. If it’s _not_ a fire door and may therefore be propped open, a lead brick will do the trick where those rubber wedges fail. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2022, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/650 "2022-06-05T17:00:37Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > What’s wrong with a simple Allen key? All our doors used to have that, but they switched them all to keyed about a decade ago. The reason given to me by a custodian was that teachers and admin didn’t like having to carry around yet another key, that wasn’t key-shaped and got caught on stuff in your pocket/purse. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2022, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/651 "2022-06-05T17:47:49Z")
> [@outlierrn](#): > > My point being that rushing the shooter may not have as much of an effect in a medial shooting than it does for someone whose plan is to go until they run out of targets or bullets. I’m sure the best response varies with the situation. I don’t know, nor does anyone really know what was the best way to handle the situation in Uvalde, but that doesn’t mean the police should not have standard procedures to use either. It’s not clear who actually understood the policy of advancing toward the shooter in this case but it was the strategy that was intended to be put in use. It’s interesting how much the world changed. Not long after this shooting occurred in late 1994 I was working at hospital offices in next door to the clinics. The whole area was becoming the a hospital/medical center zone. These were the days before Columbine and so many more mass shootings and there was very little done to prepare for future violence. Security has beefed up a lot since those days, much to do with 9/11 and later the Boston Marathon bombing, but at that time there wasn’t that much change to the procedures. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2022, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/652 "2022-06-05T18:23:42Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > I assumed that was the point of having the bathrooms inside the class. That way no teachers or students need to unlock the door. Eh, not really. Even in an idyllic world where we didn’t need locks on classroom doors at all, a bathroom in an elementary-school classroom would still be a very good idea. The teacher will escort the whole class to the bathrooms a few times a day, but many kids will need to go more often than that. Having a bathroom connected directly to the room vastly decreases the amount of disruption. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2022, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/653 "2022-06-05T20:01:41Z")
Yeah, my elementary school, built in the 1960s, with a bomb shelter in the basement, had bathrooms directly accessible from the kindergarten room. Very convenient. It also had a door directly from the kindergarten to the outside (I assume because in an emergency you want to be able to get the kindergarteners out immediately, and you can’t trust them to stick together in the hallways). ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2022, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/654 "2022-06-05T21:43:15Z")
Same thing where I went, except the portion of the school with the kindergarten was built in the mid 50s. I think the separate entrance was for overall convenience. The kindergarteners didn’t mix with the older kids during school at all. We came and left from the separate entrance. The only time we were around the other kids was before school started out in the yard. Then the bell would ring and all the other students would head for the front door and we would go in the special side entrance. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2022, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/655 "2022-06-05T23:13:37Z")
My elementary school was built in 1926, and it had two toilet cubicles in the kindergarten classroom in an alcove in the back. The fixtures were tiny sized. For the other grades (1-8), there were bathrooms for each sex with multiple stalls on both floors. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/656 "2022-06-06T14:06:10Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > All our doors used to have that, but they switched them all to keyed about a decade ago. The reason given to me by a custodian was that teachers and admin didn’t like having to carry around yet another key, that wasn’t key-shaped and got caught on stuff in your pocket/purse. I have limited experience, but recall several places where the Allen key is hung from a high point on the inside door frame. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/657 "2022-06-06T14:24:59Z")
Until stolen by a smart-ass sophomore. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/658 "2022-06-06T14:49:44Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > {…} Allen key {…} > [@silenus](#): > > Until stolen by a smart-ass sophomore. 😛 Who, without doubt, calls it a “hex wrench”! ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/659 "2022-06-06T15:05:22Z")
Finally found a picture of the device on our doors: [![](https://i0.wp.com/doorblok.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/lb2-open2018.jpg?w=400&ssl=1) ](https://i0.wp.com/doorblok.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/lb2-open2018.jpg?w=400&ssl=1) [![](https://i0.wp.com/doorblok.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/lb2-closed2018.jpg?w=400&ssl=1) ](https://i0.wp.com/doorblok.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/lb2-closed2018.jpg?w=400&ssl=1) ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/660 "2022-06-06T15:16:49Z")
That seems a better solution than relying on the teacher to locate the classroom key and lock the door while in a panic. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165.md?page=32) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165.md?page=34)