# Police response during mass shooting event {Not Gun Control, 2nd Amendment or Politics} **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 26, 2022, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165 "2022-05-26T18:28:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 43
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2022, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/841 "2022-07-20T22:20:13Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > The custodians were overwhelmed installing plexiglass and spraying fancy disinfectants. In Uvalde, even tho everyone knew that classroom door did not lock and the teacher had complained, nobody ever filled out a work order to get it fixed. > [@MandaJo](#): > > Locks are like, building infrastructure, not security. Hopefully that thinking will change. From your lips… > [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > It’s also expensive and heavy. Yep, this caused a lot of problems early in Afghanistan with humvees. They had no armor protection against IEDs so people started making field expedient armor that was so heavy that it caused all kinds of problems with transmissions etc. > [@BippityBoppityBoo](#): > > I don’t think enough women have been listened to on this. Sure, maybe not in an evening dress, but offer us pockets in most everything else. And not fake token pockets, but at least one pocket that will hold a phone without dumping it on the restroom floor. I’m a guy and I agree with this. Women have even told me about blue jeans that had fake or half pockets on them. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/842 "2022-07-26T17:38:50Z")
I’m sure most have heard this already. The principal of Robb Elementary has been suspended, with pay of course, for failing to repair faulty locks despite knowing about them, and for other shortcomings that led to the shooter having easy access to the school and classrooms. > **[Robb Elementary School principal suspended in wake of Uvalde mass shooting](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/uvalde-principal-mandy-guttierez-suspended-b2131451.html)** > > A Texas House committee report revealed that Principal Mandy Gutierrez knew that the classroom door didn’t lock properly – but failed to have it repaired ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2022, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/843 "2022-07-31T20:31:26Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > I’m sure most have heard this already. The principal of Robb Elementary has been suspended, with pay of course, for failing to repair faulty locks despite knowing about them, and for other shortcomings that led to the shooter having easy access to the school and classrooms. So nice she gets a paid vacation. Not! ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2022, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/844 "2022-07-31T23:26:28Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > The principal of Robb Elementary has been suspended, with pay of course, for failing to repair faulty locks despite knowing about them, and for other shortcomings that led to the shooter having easy access to the school and classrooms. She’s at fault of course, but I don’t think we should lump her in with the egregious failures of the Uvalde police. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2022, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/845 "2022-08-01T07:58:43Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > She’s at fault of course, but I don’t think we should lump her in with the egregious failures of the Uvalde police. She had failures all on her own. If she had enforced rules and made sure basic maintenance was done, it’s quite possible the shooter would have not had the chance to enter the school. Her suspension didn’t even last a week. She’s been restored to her job. [https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/28/us/uvalde-robb-elementary-principal-return-to-work/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/28/us/uvalde-robb-elementary-principal-return-to-work/index.html) And to show what they learned about what security is needed, here is the plan: > On Thursday, Harrell sought to reassure parents and students concerned about security, saying in a YouTube video that eight-foot fencing will be erected around all campuses before classes resume on September 6. > The plan includes the installation of bulletproof windows and metal detectors, the hiring of 10 additional police officers, and the identification of one point of entry for each school. Five officers were employed by the district at the time of the shooting, according to the legislative report. Talk about security theater. None of these would have stopped the shooting. The problem was a culture of not locking doors, not having enough keys for everyone and not fixing broken locks. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2022, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/846 "2022-08-01T18:21:37Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > She had failures all on her own. If she had enforced rules and made sure basic maintenance was done, it’s quite possible the shooter would have not had the chance to enter the school. That there were shortcomings is only half the picture. The other half–the much more meaningful half–is why did those shortcomings persist, and how common are they elsewhere, within the Uvalde School District, in Texas schools, and in the US? When something like this happens, its easy to point to everything as an example of what “wrong” looks like, but good luck finding someone who will stake their professional reputation, and possibly stand up to criminal charges, by identifying what “right” looks within such a complex and broken system as school funding in a state not known for funding its schools. ETA: In fact I want to come out on the record as saying this: the problem of school shootings is not a problem that can be solved, or even greatly diminished, through _any amount_ of school funding where actual students are to be taught in actual schools suitable to the task of educating said students. No amount of funding, no amount of door locks, no amount of bullet proofing, no amount of school resource officer or police responders trained even to the highest level possible and willing to give their lives for students. No amount of funding, not in a real-world school with real students that need to be taught. ETA2: I do believe there is a solution to the problem–or at least something that we could do that would greatly diminish the danger of school shootings–but not by funding schools more, and not something suitable for the very narrow constraints of this thread. ETA3: The greatest _criminal_ danger a school should reasonably be expected to have a role in mitigating is child custody disputes, the danger of a non-custodial parent seeking to take the child from school, and the specter of domestic violence. That’s really it. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2022, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/847 "2022-08-01T18:51:09Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > The other half–the much more meaningful half–is why did those shortcomings persist, and how common are they elsewhere, within the Uvalde School District, in Texas schools, and in the US? They probably exist all over the place. As discussed earlier in the thread, people that find security measures a pain in the ass are going to circumvent them however they can. This doesn’t only apply to schools either. Part of the problem is the “that won’t happen here” mindset. That seems to be pretty widespread across the US. > [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > In fact I want to come out on the record as saying this: the problem of school shootings is not a problem that can be solved, or even greatly diminished, through _any amount_ of school funding where actual students are to be taught in actual schools suitable to the task of educating said students. I disagree with this a bit. I think securing outside doors could diminish shootings like the one in Uvalde, where you have a shooter that needs to gain access to the school. All outside doors need to do is delay entry for a few minutes until police can arrive. Engaging the shooter outside the school is way better than after he’s inside and you can’t keep eyes on him. > [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > I do believe there is a solution to the problem–or at least something that we could do that would greatly diminish the danger of school shootings–but not by funding schools more, and not something suitable for the very narrow constraints of this thread. Yes, and I want a pony. The reason we don’t discuss that in this thread is that it’s not going to happen and we’ve all heard both sides of the argument a billion times. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2022, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/848 "2022-08-01T19:42:40Z")
> [@](#): > > …and the identification of one point of entry for each school. OK, so let’s say a school has five points of entry. They identify one of them. What are they going to do about the other four? I’d like to think that it’s implied that the other doors will remain locked and cannot be unlocked from the outside, or alarms will sound whenever any of them is opened, or something like that. I’d like to think that. But why do I have the sneaking suspicion that “identifying” one of the points of entry is literally all that this bullet point is going to consist of? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2022, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/849 "2022-08-25T18:53:12Z")
Yesterday, August 24, the [Uvalde CISD board unanimously voted to fire Pete Arredondo](https://www.npr.org/2022/08/24/1119340765/uvalde-pete-arredondo-fired-school-police-chief-robb-elementary). He objected to the termination (though he was not present at the meeting). His lawyer released a [seventeen-page statement](https://www.scribd.com/document/588953698/8-24-22-Attorney-Statement) in response. Somehow, in his head, his actions were right that day. I don’t get it. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2022, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/850 "2022-08-26T16:32:40Z")
They should have fired him three months ago when they first discussed it. it was just adding insult to injury by keeping him on the payroll for three months. Not surprising the family members were cheering. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/851 "2022-08-27T12:44:07Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > (though he was not present at the meeting). Consistent to the last. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2022, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/852 "2022-10-08T07:39:32Z")
[CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/07/us/uvalde-police-department-suspended/index.html) says the entire Uvalde School District Police Force has been suspended. That’s the five person force led by Chief Pete who was fired back in August. It seems CNN discovered that one of the state troopers under investigation for her inaction on the day of the shooting, had left her job and been hired by the school district force. Parents recognized her from video on the day of the shooting. Despite being one of the first officers on scene, she didn’t put on her body armor or arm herself with her AR15. She stayed outside the building and was heard on video saying if her son was in there she would be in there saving him in a flash. You’d think after all that happened that any Uvalde LEO hiring would have pretty detailed background checks. Since she was under investigation, they either didn’t check or didn’t care. ---
**Author:** ![dougrb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/76d3ee/32.png) [@dougrb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougrb)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2022, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/853 "2022-10-08T21:12:19Z")
Amber Ruffin covers how putting cops in schools is going… aka “School Resource Officers” [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/64aM9NTvHAo/maxresdefault.jpg "Are Police in Schools Doing More Harm Than Good? | The Amber Ruffin Show") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64aM9NTvHAo) ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2022, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/854 "2022-10-12T14:40:53Z")
The New York Times has a lengthy [article](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/12/us/uvalde-shooting-police-response-investigation.html?unlocked_article_code=WhMyXHJr1DeAgxmNcpXqHt3M-ojLv5q8wdUTthTHMnNZjkgymagJUudgcos3an1XbgSDIvAJH6I84NT-MTWqWcKRa9Cr35tzf2Yq20y9L0jueiKBALvYy2cYXNisHOaYzAijLg1ISiu6pmAXUS_5kagvsVsNq03WtHb0-OIMLa5wVIThlkQra-Rt-Rx6F8fCp3Lsx8jdnpvfpCwKCS_7qixqUh3oog1AU36nTCSynCqcCfgZoiksyravreis94kzPg2SSADVR4iaoRZ-DdW2J-_ftAfFr73Rpa2TmgIKESUfEdzkzbsl7BDZ3uV-GxILimeFBcoyotLCehQ4qQDjlRq2SyB65yoYflEtqOdGvAo&smid=share-url) (gift link) based on a detailed analysis of the footage. They suggest that other police who were there were guilty of the same inaction that’s largely been blamed on Pete Arredondo. Among other things, the article says, “Footage shows BORTAC, the Border Patrol’s elite tactical agents, took charge about halfway into the response, and learned right away that children were trapped inside with the gunman. But it took 37 minutes of planning, testing keys and readying equipment before BORTAC breached the classrooms.” ---
**Author:** ![dougrb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/76d3ee/32.png) [@dougrb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougrb)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2022, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/855 "2022-10-24T23:38:23Z")
“St. Louis Schools Superintendent Kelvin Adams said seven security guards were in the school at the time, each at an entry point of the locked building.” So it only takes seven security guards in a locked building to limit the death toll to two. > **[2 killed in shooting at St. Louis high school; gunman dead](https://www.politico.com/news/2022/10/24/st-louis-school-shooting-00063160)** > > One terrorized girl said she was eye-to-eye with the shooter before his gun apparently jammed and she was able to run out. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2022, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/856 "2022-10-25T00:10:38Z")
The educator who was blamed for propping open the door that the Uvalde gunman used speaks out in an ABC interview. > “The exterior door,” the top police official in Texas told reporters, “was propped open by a teacher.” > > That statement by Col. Steven McCraw, director of the Texas Department of Public Safety, would be quietly retracted within a few days. Instead, DPS officials said later, the door had been shut by the “teacher” but, for some reason, it didn’t lock even though it was supposed to do that automatically. She was a school aide who called 911. Video showed that she pulled the door shut. > **['I am suffering mentally,' Uvalde educator says after false blame in shooting...](https://abcnews.go.com/US/suffering-mentally-uvalde-educator-false-blame-shooting-aftermath/story?id=91886661)** > > Emilia "Amy" Marin, a school aide who worked with students after school, said she still struggles through post-traumatic stress from the shooting and its aftermath. ---
**Author:** ![dougrb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/76d3ee/32.png) [@dougrb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougrb)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2022, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/857 "2022-10-25T01:05:30Z")
http s://www.yo [utube.com/watch?v=Tiq7](http://utube.com/watch?v=Tiq7) nw\_0Oes ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2022, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/858 "2022-10-25T01:17:05Z")
**Modnote** : this is not the thread for this and please don’t post just video links. > [@Police response during mass shooting event {Not Gun Control, 2nd Amendment or Politics}](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/3): > > I moved this to IMHO as not really a question for FQ. Please note for everyone, this is not a gun control or politics thread. Please keep on the subject of how police should handle mass/school shootings. Note: Magiver was instructed to stop posting in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2022, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/859 "2022-10-25T05:42:11Z")
> [@dougrb](#): > > So it only takes seven security guards in a locked building to limit the death toll to two. > > [2 killed in shooting at St. Louis high school; gunman dead - POLITICO](https://www.politico.com/news/2022/10/24/st-louis-school-shooting-00063160) I can hardly wait for an explanation for how he got in. One of the guards spotted him outside the building with a rifle and called in the alarm. Are the guards unarmed? What’s the point of police guards against shootings if they are unarmed? > [@Railer13](#): > > She was a school aide who called 911. Video showed that she pulled the door shut. > > ['I am suffering mentally,' Uvalde educator says after false blame in shooting aftermath: Exclusive - ABC News](https://abcnews.go.com/US/suffering-mentally-uvalde-educator-false-blame-shooting-aftermath/story?id=91886661) I read that earlier. Too many people are just assholes. It’s like they never read/heard anything except for the original story. She was getting crap long after is was known she didn’t prop open the door. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2022, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/860 "2022-10-25T16:03:28Z")
“Security guards” sounds to me as not the same thing as proper police resource officers or Uvalde-style School District Police. More like the sort of people who screen for contraband or escort out a disruptive person. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165.md?page=42) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165.md?page=44)