# Police response during mass shooting event {Not Gun Control, 2nd Amendment or Politics} **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 26, 2022, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165 "2022-05-26T18:28:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2022, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/101 "2022-05-27T17:55:59Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > All my life I’ve been told to call the police if I’m in trouble. Why? I obviously can’t count on them for help. The police have ZERO obligation to protect you, your children or your property. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2022, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/102 "2022-05-27T17:58:36Z")
Is that true? Can you back that up at all? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2022, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/103 "2022-05-27T18:00:40Z")
So that “To Protect And To Serve” motto on LAPD vehicles is a lie? ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2022, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/104 "2022-05-27T18:03:36Z")
[POLICE HAVE NO DUTY TO PROTECT YOU, FEDERAL COURT AFFIRMS YET AGAIN](https://mises.org/power-market/police-have-no-duty-protect-you-federal-court-affirms-yet-again). > “Neither the Constitution, nor state law, impose a general duty upon police officers or other governmental officials to protect individual persons from harm — even when they know the harm will occur,” said Darren L. Hutchinson, a professor and associate dean at the University of Florida School of Law. “Police can watch someone attack you, refuse to intervene and not violate the Constitution.” ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2022, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/105 "2022-05-27T18:03:59Z")
There are no shortage of credible sources that make the point pretty unambiguously (and are based on case law): > **[Police Have No Duty to Protect the Public](https://prospect.org/justice/police-have-no-duty-to-protect-the-public/)** > > Though often unsaid in police reform debates, numerous court precedents have established that cops aren’t obligated to act in the interests of citizens. > **[Police Have No Duty to Protect You, Federal Court Affirms Yet Again | Ryan...](https://mises.org/power-market/police-have-no-duty-protect-you-federal-court-affirms-yet-again)** > > Following last February's shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, some students claimed local government officials were at fault for failing to provide protection to students. The students filed suit, naming six... ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2022, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/106 "2022-05-27T18:08:20Z")
Holy crap, why even have police then? F’ing Supreme Court screwed us all. > “Neither the Constitution, nor state law, impose a general duty upon police officers or other governmental officials to protect individual persons from harm — even when they know the harm will occur,” said Darren L. Hutchinson, a professor and associate dean at the University of Florida School of Law. “Police can watch someone attack you, refuse to intervene and not violate the Constitution.” > > The Supreme Court has repeatedly held that the government has only a duty to protect persons who are “in custody,” he pointed out. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2022, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/107 "2022-05-27T18:12:36Z")
Texas should come up with a law that forces cops to grow a spine in these cases. If cops want praise and adulation, they need to step up and actually face some risks and not just shoot people who aren’t a danger. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2022, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/108 "2022-05-27T18:14:31Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > The police have ZERO obligation to protect you, your children or your property. Yeah, you guys should probably fix that. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2022, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/109 "2022-05-27T18:16:38Z")
I have no need to admit that honor and courage are important, I am stating definitively that honor and courage are important. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2022, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/110 "2022-05-27T18:16:52Z")
I’m sure the Republican response would be, “that is why we have the second amendment”. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2022, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/111 "2022-05-27T18:17:50Z")
**Modnote** : That is off-topic, no 2nd amendment or politics in this thread. Keep it to Police. Remember to stay on OP. This is close to a warning. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2022, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/112 "2022-05-27T18:30:51Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Holy crap, why even have police then? F’ing Supreme Court screwed us all. The Supremes did not screw us in this case, they were giving legislatures an opportunity to write laws that place responsibilities on the police. The ‘protect and serve’ nonsense is promoted by the police acting as a political bloc, which the reason unions exist. And they have worked hand in hand with legislatures to promote fear based policing. ‘Protect and serve’ is not the law. And the actual laws are rather lame. As I pointed out in other threads, the government doesn’t like to make rules that can be used against them. They write laws governing their own behavior that have no teeth. In regard to some of the arguments in this thread, the state has no authority to force people to give up their own live for another individual. I don’t know if that actually even applies in this case though, I don’t think that policemen getting shot was going to save any lives at all. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2022, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/113 "2022-05-27T18:38:16Z")
> [@Falchion](#): > > As I’ve understood it, what you call the “shoot first” approach has been the accepted doctrine for police responses to mass shootings for about 20 years. Has there been an uptick in friendly fire? In officer deaths or injuries? In shooters escaping because no one secured the perimeter? > > Even for rare events, 20 years should give us some data to look at. And, as far as I can tell, it still seems to be accepted that the key is to engage the shooter as fast as possible. I believe what you say, that it is accepted doctrine. So show me data that backs up that doctrine. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2022, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/114 "2022-05-27T18:40:21Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > In regard to some of the arguments in this thread, the state has no authority to force people to give up their own live for another individual. It’s allowed to force soldiers to give their lives to protect their country. How is stopping a school shooter not protecting the country? The country _is_ its people. Defending them is defending it. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2022, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/115 "2022-05-27T18:46:42Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > It’s allowed to force soldiers to give their lives to protect their country. How is stopping a school shooter not protecting the country? The country _is_ its people. Defending them is defending it. There are legal definitions for all of these things, notional definitions do not count. Having said that, I don’t think it’s correct to say the state is compelling a policeman to give his life by requiring him to apprehend an armed criminal. Yes, we’re asking him to risk his life, no we’re not asking him to actually die. It’s time for cops to put up or shut up regarding their propaganda. If they want to be called heroes for protecting us, then they need to risk their lives to save ours. That’s what heroes do. That’s why we give them authority to kill people. If they don’t want to risk their lives for others, then they should be stripped of their deadly force. Because otherwise they’re glorified desk jockeys with way too much power for what they’re doing. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2022, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/116 "2022-05-27T18:48:52Z")
Perhaps soon we will see some details of the location and construction of the class room and door(s), what furniture was in the room, how the police were equipped. We also need to find out why a door to the school was open allowing the shitstain to enter the school unimpeded. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2022, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/117 "2022-05-27T18:52:35Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > If they don’t want to risk their lives for others, then they should be stripped of their deadly force. Because otherwise they’re glorified desk jockeys with way too much power for what they’re doing. Well stroked. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2022, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/118 "2022-05-27T18:57:10Z")
I don’t think of it in terms of who to blame, or who to mock for their hypocrisy. What it comes down to is, _the system failed_. It failed at Parkland. It failed now. It may have failed because it’s completely human not to rush toward probable death, but the system relies on cops rushing toward probable death. It may have failed because the level of training cops get isn’t enough to overcome their survival instinct. It may have failed because we don’t hire brave people to be cops. It may have failed for any variety of reasons. Whatever: the system failed, and if we don’t change it, it’s gonna fail next time. We should learn the lesson. We can’t rely on cops to save lives when there’s a mass shooter. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2022, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/119 "2022-05-27T18:59:01Z")
First, the police are not the military. I don’t know specifically what laws allow such orders to be given to soldiers, but they answer to a different set of laws. Second, giving up your life to protect your country is not the same thing as giving up your life to protect other specific people. ‘Some of the people’ are not ‘the people’. What would stop the government from ordering citizens to give up vital organs to save some other person if they had such authority? The right to stay alive is fundamental and police officers don’t give up that right when they join the force. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2022, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165/120 "2022-05-27T19:02:29Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > The right to stay alive is fundamental and police officers don’t give up that right when they join the force. If a cop has the ability and the authority to end my life, he/she damn well be prepared to at least risk theirs to protect the people they profess to serve. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-response-during-mass-shooting-event-not-gun-control-2nd-amendment-or-politics/965165.md?page=7)