# Police shoot U.S. student's laptop upon entry to Israel **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 16, 2009, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458 "2009-12-16T05:37:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/21 "2009-12-16T15:51:10Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > (We also don’t like “protest tourists”; call us odd, but we have no time for people who come to the country for the sole purpose of stirring up shit. One Rachel Corrie was enough. > Destroying her computer was probably a bit overkill, though). Is there some evidence, somewhere, that she was, indeed, a “protest tourist”? I saw no such reference in the linked story. ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/22 "2009-12-16T15:51:18Z")
The security personnel almost certainly had a suspicion that the laptop was booby-trapped; it was probably shot by a robot, not a human. It’s a “better safe than sorry” tactic, often used on forgotten bags, e.g., on city streets as well. Everybody living here has either lost a bag, almost lost a bag, or knows someone who lost a bag to “Suspicious Object Handling.” As to this case, I have absolutely no idea whether the suspicion was warranted – but it takes little to put Israeli security on edge, at which point, yes, “better safe than sorry” **will** be the order of the day. I suspect, BTW, that it may _not_ be a coincidence that the Hard Disk **was** salvageable. And she will be compensated for the damage. While it is obviously not a fun ordeal to undergo, I don’t see the terrible outrage verging on “ZOMG Human Rights Violation!!” No-one died; no-one was injured; a computer was destroyed but the data that was on it was saved… IMO, having something like this happen even a few times a year is better than letting a booby-trapped object through security even once. IMHO, YMMV… ETA: \*\*muldoonthief \*\*-- using a robot to shoot suspicious object is SOP for such objects; I’m no weapons or explosives expert, but I don’t think this tactic would be in use if it failed to work reliably. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/23 "2009-12-16T16:08:57Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > This is just too bizarre to even take seriously. I mean, what possible reason could anybody ever have to shoot a laptop? Isn’t being a Mac reason enough? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/24 "2009-12-16T16:50:49Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > If they thought it might actually contain explosives, wouldn’t they actually blow it up - as in pile it up with sandbags, put a small charge on it, then detonate? Isn’t that what actual bomb squads do with suspected explosives? Shooting something you think might be a bomb won’t reliably detonate it, or disarm it. We need **Tripler**. Blasting a bomb with a shotgun actually is a pretty reliable way to disarm it as it destroys the detonator. Most modern explosives are resistant to shock and fire for safety reasons and probably wouldn’t be set off by shooting them. One does have to wonder what possible reason Israeli police would have to question a student for two hours and then blow up her laptop? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/25 "2009-12-16T17:31:34Z")
_I shot the laptop But I did not shoot the desk PC_ ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/26 "2009-12-16T17:43:42Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > Intentional. One through the middle of the hard drive, one through the CPU and one through the RAM. A perfect job. Careful. This may be the old “Israeli Laptop Sharpshooter’s Fallacy.” ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/27 "2009-12-16T17:56:16Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > I disagree. TSA agents aren’t that competent. They would have dropped it, stumbled over it, picked it back up with a pair of oven mitts, dropped it again, shoved someone else’s luggage off the belt in order to run it through the scanner, stood around in a group of no less than six pointing at the monitor for at least eight minutes, and finally handed it back in non-operable condition. Meanwhile, three Arabs with “Allah Akbar!” tattooed on their foreheads, several known members of the New Red Army Faction, and a troupe of midget Neo-Nazis shouting, “Death To Clevelend!” walked right through an empty but open security gate. Now they’re on to me. Damn, time to switch to plan B. Team, change flights to Newark. > [@Jackmannii](#): > > I shot the laptop > But I did not shoot the desk PC Your laptop is next. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/28 "2009-12-16T18:05:22Z")
> [@Noone\_Special](#): > > As to this case, I have absolutely no idea whether the suspicion was warranted – but it takes little to put Israeli security on edge, at which point, yes, “better safe than sorry” **will** be the order of the day. During the IRA bombing campaign in London in the 1970s, my great-aunt had a bag of cabbages blown up for similar reasons. ---
**Author:** ![wierdaaron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eada6e/32.png) [@wierdaaron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wierdaaron)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/29 "2009-12-16T18:05:34Z")
If they thought it was a bomb, shooting it with firearms is the stupidest thing they could have done with it! In the US when they suspect a piece of luggage contains a bomb, they actually blow it up. They put it in a blast tank if possible, toss some demo-grade C4 in with it, and kerblammo. The idea is to instantly disintegrate the explosive mechanism so that it can’t explode as intended. If you put a teaspoons worth of C4 onto an IED or a suitcase nuke, you’ll only have a teaspoon-sized explosion that destroys the explosive. However, if you just start shooting an IED or a suitcase nuke with a handgun, you could very will activate the trigger mechanism and get an IED or suitcase nuke sized explosion that destroys your face. It just seems strange, all of it. Maybe it’s a language thing, but I don’t see how you can say “We blew up your laptop” when they actually shot it. They’re very different things. If they thought there was a bomb in the laptop, they could have swabbed it for explosive residue or called in somebody who knows WTF they’re doing before they start playing target practice. Weird stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/30 "2009-12-16T18:25:51Z")
> [@wierdaaron](#): > > In the US when they suspect a piece of luggage contains a bomb, they actually blow it up. They put it in a blast tank if possible, toss some demo-grade C4 in with it, and kerblammo. The idea is to instantly disintegrate the explosive mechanism so that it can’t explode as intended. If you put a teaspoons worth of C4 onto an IED or a suitcase nuke, you’ll only have a teaspoon-sized explosion that destroys the explosive. > > However, if you just start shooting an IED or a suitcase nuke with a handgun, you could very will activate the trigger mechanism and get an IED or suitcase nuke sized explosion that destroys your face. Nitpick: most compact nuclear devices are not “one point safe” (that is, that they won’t undergo any significant fission if only one of the EBW or slapper detonators is triggered) and so exploding one in this manner could result in a less damaging but still hazardous fizzle. However, you are correct that the general way of dealing with IEDs is to detonate in place if possible using an external charge. Shooting an IED, even at long range, is uncertain to disable the weapon, and shooting it at pistol range seems like a good way to become part of the debris. This sounds more like a bunch of yahoos having a good time at the expense of the student. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/31 "2009-12-16T18:30:59Z")
I think both of you missed the part where I mentioned that suspicious objects are isolated, and then shot **by a [remotely controlled] robot**. Even if the object does blow up – well, it’s a significant amount of money down the drain, but nothing worse. ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/32 "2009-12-16T18:36:30Z")
To late to edit: I don’t think anyone was suspecting a “Suitcase Nuke,” only at most “regular” explosives. For one thing, “Suitcase Nukes” are probably an exaggeration to begin with, and they certainly won’t fit in a laptop chassis. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/33 "2009-12-16T18:45:00Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > _I shot the laptop > But I did not shoot the desk PC_ Shot through the laptop and Israel’s to blame you give security a BAD NAME Can’t play online, and can’t play my games You give security a BAD NAME. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/34 "2009-12-16T18:56:04Z")
> [@Noone\_Special](#): > > I think both of you missed the part where I mentioned that suspicious objects are isolated, and then shot **by a [remotely controlled] robot**. Even if the object does blow up – well, it’s a significant amount of money down the drain, but nothing worse. Do you have a cite for this? Because it doesn’t make any sense to me either. You say they use a remote controlled robot to shoot the item. I presume you mean at close range, since if it blows up it’s a “significant amount of money down the drain.” But if you have to do that, why not just have robot put the object down, and get far away, and have a human rifleman shoot it? I’m no Annie Oakley, but I could hit a laptop from 200 yds with no difficulty, especially if I get multiple shots and it’s not shooting back. A real rifleman should have no difficulty. ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/35 "2009-12-16T18:57:16Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Oh, we have plenty of protestors of our own, both Jews and Arabs. We don’t need any more - particularly Americans. No offence, but Americans are crazy. Some are. Some are young people who are traveling around and just want to experience a lot of different countries. They carry phrasebooks and visit a whole region at once because it’s cheapest to do things that way and they have laptops, MP3 players, smartphones and lots of techy toys. And the overwhelming majority of them aren’t protestors, aren’t dangerous in any way, and shouldn’t be treated as if they are. > [@](#): > > I’d like you to remember 2 things: > > 1. They’re going to reimburse her for the Mac. > > 2. The INS would have acted much, much worse. They’re going to reimburse her for the machine, in about a month’s time – if then. Meanwhile, she’s out the use of her equipment, and while it says that she recovered the hard drive, there is no guarantee that she actually recovered her data. If she’s been traveling for a while she may not have a recent backup. Her loss could be far more significant than any reimbursement could cover. Secondly, TSA confiscates machines, and you have to sue to get them back, but they come back intact and without bullet holes in them. ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/36 "2009-12-16T19:05:12Z")
[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/T-Kvp3cQ8Gc/hqdefault.jpg "משטרה במבחן") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-Kvp3cQ8Gc) The narration is in Hebrew, and it’s more about why the road wasn’t opened back earlier than it was… but you can see a good demonstration of the robot in action. ETA: This is in response to **muldoonthief** ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/37 "2009-12-16T19:08:37Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > I wonder why people never go to Saudi Arabia or Iran to do this? So, to be clear. You are sarcastically implying that the gangland-style exection of an American tourist’s laptop by Israeli police in Israel is unremarkable because Saudi Arabia and Iran have regimes intollerant of outsiders? ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/38 "2009-12-16T19:19:29Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Sorry, I missed all the Israeli propagandizing about how great they supposedly are. As an American who has lived his entire life in America - growing up around a lot of Jews, no less - I don’t think I have ever witnessed a single bit of Israeli propaganda. > > I’ve had people return from visits to Israel saying how great it was. Of course, I’ve had people say the same for lots of countries. > > Never have I ever encountered propaganda FROM Israel, advocating how great “they” are. Where exactly is this pro-Israeli propaganda, from Israel, being disseminated? Propaganda does not have to be false or misleading. It can be true. It’s defining characteristic is that it’s not impartial and is intended to influence. Are you suggesting that no defender of Israel has suggested that Israel is more civilized than its neighbors? (Hint: you did just that very thing in post #10) ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/39 "2009-12-16T19:43:01Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > At least they didn’t run it over with a D9. > > The Followers of the Prophet tend to behead people that protest too loudly rather than shoot their property. > > I disagree. TSA agents aren’t that competent. They would have dropped it, stumbled over it, picked it back up with a pair of oven mitts, dropped it again, shoved someone else’s luggage off the belt in order to run it through the scanner, stood around in a group of no less than six pointing at the monitor for at least eight minutes, and finally handed it back in non-operable condition. Meanwhile, three Arabs with “Allah Akbar!” tattooed on their foreheads, several known members of the New Red Army Faction, and a troupe of midget Neo-Nazis shouting, “Death To Clevelend!” walked right through an empty but open security gate. > > Stranger While we’re being smug and all, I’d like to point out that it would be neither INS nor TSA that would be responsible for it, but US Customs. Does anyone remember some years ago around Christmas when an agency blew up an 8-bit Nintendo that was meant as a Christmas gift for some relative? ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/40 "2009-12-16T19:51:18Z")
> [@Noone\_Special](#): > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-Kvp3cQ8Gc](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-Kvp3cQ8Gc) > > The narration is in Hebrew, and it’s more about why the road wasn’t opened back earlier than it was… but you can see a good demonstration of the robot in action. > > ETA: This is in response to **muldoonthief** Thanks. Ignorance fought, though I still can’t figure out how that would reliably disarm and/or detonate an explosive device. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458.md?page=3)