# Police shoot U.S. student's laptop upon entry to Israel **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 16, 2009, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458 "2009-12-16T05:37:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2009, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/81 "2009-12-19T20:58:27Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Israelis subject themselves to this “brutality” all the time just an interesting aside, to compare the serious attititude of Israeli airport security vs. the joke which is the TSA in America: About a year ago , an Israeli policeman flying out of Israel on official police business accidently packed his cop pistol along with his uniform in his carry on bag. He arrived in America, discovered his mistake and notified the authorities that they had screwed up really badly, allowing a loaded weapon on board a plane. Back in Israel, the ENTIRE SHIFT of baggage checkers who had been on duty at the time of that flight were fired, immediately. Nobody complained. moral of the story—In Israel, citizens understand and accept that airport security is serious business. The public will tolerate an occasional stupid mistake, as long as the mistake is on the side of unnecesary severity, not laxness. ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2009, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/82 "2009-12-19T22:40:48Z")
> [@Raguleader](#): > > Fun trivia, shooting a suspected explosive is actually something that EOD crews do, at least in the Air Force. I have even had an EOD captain tell me that his preferred tool was an M-14 rifle with a scope, I understand it’s for situations where it’s preferable to set off the bomb from a safe distance rather than sit around playing with it (ie: When you suspect snipers/ambush or other bombs, or if you just don’t know enough about it to get close to it) Depends on the munition and the area around it, but yes, Standoff MUnitions Disruption (SMUD) is pretty effective. I like it for runway clearance. Tripler Pretty good for submunitions. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/83 "2009-12-20T00:19:40Z")
> [@Tripler](#): > > Depends on the munition and the area around it, but yes, Standoff MUnitions Disruption (SMUD) is pretty effective. I like it for runway clearance. > > Tripler > Pretty good for submunitions. It’s also fun if you just wanna blow something up with an old school rifle. The same Captain told me that he didn’t like using the Barret .50 because it hit the IED’s too hard, breaking them apart with the blunt force of the impact rather than setting them off like he wanted (a broken bomb means lots of little explody bits for him to deal with, rather than a crater with fewer, but still potentially explody bits). He let me tool around with an M-14 for a few minutes, that does seem like a very fun rifle to use (though maybe not a fun rifle to haul around in the desert. Probably more fun for that than the Barret would be…) ---
**Author:** ![Stealth\_Potato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Stealth\_Potato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stealth_Potato)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/84 "2009-12-20T00:35:21Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > Back in Israel, the ENTIRE SHIFT of baggage checkers who had been on duty at the time of that flight were fired, immediately. Nobody complained. That seems a bit excessive. How many of those fired had even been in a position to observe or intercept the pistol? I mean, I can see firing any security personnel who had interacted with the policeman’s baggage and failed to notice the gun, but what about someone who was doing an excellent job on another passenger/baggage line at the time? Or is it just a “_one_ screener messed up, and we have no idea which one, so we’d better fire all of them” sort of thing? ---
**Author:** ![WhyWhyWhy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whywhywhy/32/7539_2.png) [@WhyWhyWhy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyWhyWhy)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/85 "2009-12-20T02:23:12Z")
> [@](#): > > No offence, but Americans are crazy. No offence taken. We actually encourage the stereotype. Keeps the natives in line. Well, that and lots of nukes. Lots. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/86 "2009-12-20T02:26:07Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > Back in Israel, the ENTIRE SHIFT of baggage checkers who had been on duty at the time of that flight were fired, immediately. That’s bad management. ---
**Author:** ![WhyWhyWhy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whywhywhy/32/7539_2.png) [@WhyWhyWhy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyWhyWhy)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/87 "2009-12-20T02:26:29Z")
Need a laptop with greater ventilation? We have an app for that! hehe ---
**Author:** ![WhyWhyWhy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whywhywhy/32/7539_2.png) [@WhyWhyWhy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyWhyWhy)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/88 "2009-12-20T02:29:27Z")
> [@](#): > > Isn’t this just a bit over the top? Sure doesn’t inspire me to want to go there with my laptop, as mine is currently free of bullet holes. Could have been worse. Much worse. Between bullet holes and Vista…I’m thinking…bullet holes. Yeah, bullet holes. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/89 "2009-12-20T04:26:49Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > That’s bad management. > [@stealthpotato](#): > > a “one screener messed up, and we have no idea which one, so we’d better fire all of them” yep, **steathpotato** has the right answer. There was no way to determine which individual was responsible, so they fired all of them, for one simple mistake. Because there are some jobs where zero tolerance is necessary. Israeli citizens realize this, and _accept the responsibility involved._ So no, it’s not bad management, when the policy is fully accepted by all the employees, and the general public. My point is to show just how seriously Israelis understand the threat of terrorism. For Americans, Sept 11 was a one-off event , never repeated. But not for Israelis. The laptop incident that started this thread is a case of overkill\* But behind the incident lies a very serious philosophy.. - (nice pun, heh?). . ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/90 "2009-12-20T04:33:43Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > Back in Israel, the ENTIRE SHIFT of baggage checkers who had been on duty at the time of that flight were fired, immediately. Nobody complained. I would sure as hell complain if I were fired for the incompetence of one of my associates. “Do you have a cite?” he asked politely. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![WhyWhyWhy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whywhywhy/32/7539_2.png) [@WhyWhyWhy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyWhyWhy)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/91 "2009-12-20T04:53:22Z")
> [@](#): > > You don’t just grab a laptop and blaze away at it without knowing what’s inside. Maybe not in YOUR household. That said, jeeezzzzz, folks! It is just one laptop. I’m more concerned about the gazillions of laptops that decide to self-destruct for no damn reason at all. ---
**Author:** ![WhyWhyWhy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whywhywhy/32/7539_2.png) [@WhyWhyWhy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyWhyWhy)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/92 "2009-12-20T04:56:43Z")
> [@](#): > > I would sure as hell complain if I were fired for the incompetence of one of my associates. Associates=management. Fire away. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/93 "2009-12-20T05:07:36Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > (We also don’t like “protest tourists”; call us odd, but we have no time for people who come to the country for the sole purpose of stirring up shit. One Rachel Corrie was enough. > Destroying her computer was probably a bit overkill, though). Probably so, but you gotta admit that destroying Rachel Corrie was perfectly kosher… the little bitch tried to spray-paint an Israeli bulldozer’s treads with her impure blood and guts. But such chutzpah! …if only she wasn’t a filthy shiksa. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/94 "2009-12-20T05:08:48Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > During the IRA bombing campaign in London in the 1970s, my great-aunt had a bag of cabbages blown up for similar reasons. Valid. Gas attacks are a potential terror tactic. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/95 "2009-12-20T05:10:48Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Heh. > > “Brutality” is a word I generally reserve for bad acts against _people_, or at the least, living beings. Though I suppose wilful destruction of works or art or the like could be “brutality”. > > The use of security in this case can be described as “excessive”, “paranoid”, “silly” or “stupid” (depending of course on the facts), but “brutal”? What, torture of a laptop? Sorry, he should have said “bootality.” ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/96 "2009-12-20T05:21:53Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > 1. They’re going to reimburse her for the Mac. > > 2. The INS would have acted much, much worse. Could you maybe reimburse Rachel Corrie while your in such a forgiving mood? It’s a little more difficult, I know, but Yahweh is a forgiving God, right? Oh.. shit! That’s right! He only sees fit to forgive the _Chosen People_. Welp, sucks to be her! Just another dumb Arab-loving whore with the misfortune of randomly picking the wrong fairy tale. Oh gosh darn it. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/97 "2009-12-20T05:57:57Z")
Huh? What the fuck are you yammering on about? ---
**Author:** ![Batfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Batfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batfish)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/98 "2009-12-20T14:49:03Z")
> [@Noone\_Special](#): > > I think both of you missed the part where I mentioned that suspicious objects are isolated, and then shot **by a [remotely controlled] robot**. Even if the object does blow up – well, it’s a significant amount of money down the drain, but nothing worse. I’m curious about this procedure you’re postulating. So this border security force has no way to detect explosives but they have a robot. They suspect a laptop of concealing explosives so they shoot three holes in it and because it didn’t explode it must not have any. Then they give the laptop back to the owner and promise her a replacement. Sounds like what they wanted to accomplish was to deny her use of her laptop while she was in Isreal. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/99 "2009-12-20T14:52:41Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > Oh.. shit! That’s right! He only sees fit to forgive the _Chosen People_. Welp, sucks to be her! Just another dumb Arab-loving whore with the misfortune of randomly picking the wrong fairy tale. Oh gosh darn it. This is **Great Debates** , not the **BBQ Pit**. If you have to post a rant in **Great Debates** , then at least don’t post factually erroneous information including deliberately misinterpreted phrases and bad theology. Knock it off or take it to the Pit. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/100 "2009-12-20T15:06:12Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Huh? > > What …are you yammering on about? I believe it is a reference to the protester who was accidentally killed by a bulldozer. Let’s start [another thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=11907686#post11907686) to discuss it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458.md?page=6)