# Police shoot U.S. student's laptop upon entry to Israel **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 16, 2009, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458 "2009-12-16T05:37:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/101 "2009-12-20T15:11:06Z")
> [@Batfish](#): > > I’m curious about this procedure you’re postulating. > > So this border security force has no way to detect explosives but they have a robot. > > They suspect a laptop of concealing explosives so they shoot three holes in it and because it didn’t explode it must not have any. > > Then they give the laptop back to the owner and promise her a replacement. > > Sounds like what they wanted to accomplish was to deny her use of her laptop while she was in Isreal. Right. And my friend from high school who forgot her saxophone in a public bathroom - the police blew it up because they’re not jazz fans, huh? Face it: there was nothing unique or personal about what happened. As for “denying her the use of her laptop”… you know they sell computers here, right? OK, Macs are a bit overpriced (Israelis don’t like Macs), but she could have picked up a decent PC (or a cheap netbook) at any mall in the country. ---
**Author:** ![Batfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Batfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batfish)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/102 "2009-12-20T15:41:11Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Right. And my friend from high school who forgot her saxophone in a public bathroom - the police blew it up because they’re not jazz fans, huh? > > Face it: there was nothing unique or personal about what happened. As for “denying her the use of her laptop”… you know they sell computers here, right? OK, Macs are a bit overpriced (Israelis don’t like Macs), but she could have picked up a decent PC (or a cheap netbook) at any mall in the country. Okay, so random police incompetence then. I’ll always buy that one, in any country. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/103 "2009-12-20T15:57:34Z")
Why incompetence? It was my friend’s own fault for forgetting her sax - she was the first to admit it. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/104 "2009-12-20T16:01:17Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Is there some evidence, somewhere, that she was, indeed, a “protest tourist”? > I saw no such reference in the linked story. Me too. I don’t see what’s so protesty about entering Israel from Egypt. Also, is it normal to shoot a laptop to “blow it up”? Shooting at a computer to disable it just seems weird–if it’s got a bomb, isn’t that just going to trigger it? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/105 "2009-12-20T16:14:25Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Me too. I don’t see what’s so protesty about entering Israel from Egypt. She fit the profile. Maybe she was just here on vacation - odds are she was - but the job of border security is always to consider the worse case scenario. > [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Also, is it normal to shoot a laptop to “blow it up”? Shooting at a computer to disable it just seems weird–if it’s got a bomb, isn’t that just going to trigger it? The idea is to trigger it. First you clear the area, then you blow it up. Much better to destroy property than to risk lives. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/106 "2009-12-20T16:22:18Z")
The Israeli approach to security emphasizes looking for terrorists and their associates over simply looking for weapons (and, if I may get in a dig as a FF against the TSA boobs, looking for types over pretending that Gramma Perez needs a careful random screening for the bomb in her bloomers because, hey, any one of us could be a terrorist…). Anyway, what’s missing from this story is why this particular laptop owner raised a suspicious eyebrow. It’s not likely it was totally random and it doesn’t seem likely it was a bunch of security yahoos either. It is equally unlikely the Israeli security folks are going to have much to say in public about the why’s, regardless of whether they were right or wrong. Since the HD was not destroyed and since they are going to pony up for a replacement, I think we can assume it wasn’t the electronic content on the computer, but beyond that we seem to be pooling ignorance here. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/107 "2009-12-20T16:36:51Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > One does have to wonder what possible reason Israeli police would have to question a student for two hours and then blow up her laptop? Did one get a chance to read the student’s blog? While she’s entitled to her opinions, she’s not exactly an unbiased tourist (from the viewpoint of Israelis looking to sniff out malcontents). > **[Private Site](https://lilysussman.wordpress.com/2009/11/30/im-sorry-but-we-blew-up-your-laptop-welcome-to-israel/)** In any case, Insha’allah she’s having a better day today. ---
**Author:** ![Batfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Batfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batfish)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/108 "2009-12-20T17:09:40Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Why incompetence? It was my friend’s own fault for forgetting her sax - she was the first to admit it. I was speaking of the case(haha) at hand, not your friend’s poor saxaphone. But since you insist, the two events aren’t analogous. An anonymous abandoned piece of luggage isn’t the same as a laptop carried by a known traveler. My problem is really with the procedure. If they truly believed there was a suspicion of explosives in the laptop, shooting holes in it can only prove the positive, when it explodes. That it didn’t explode doesn’t prove the opposite but yet they returned it to her. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/109 "2009-12-20T17:16:22Z")
> [@Batfish](#): > > I was speaking of the case(haha) at hand, not your friend’s poor saxaphone. > > But since you insist, the two events aren’t analogous. An anonymous abandoned piece of luggage isn’t the same as a laptop carried by a known traveler. I agree - see my theory above. What we’re disagreeing on is who screwed up - the border guard, or the police bomb disposal units. > [@Batfish](#): > > My problem is really with the procedure. If they truly believed there was a suspicion of explosives in the laptop, shooting holes in it can only prove the positive, when it explodes. That it didn’t explode doesn’t prove the opposite but yet they returned it to her. On assumes they examined it after they shot it. That’s the procedure, at least. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/110 "2009-12-20T17:49:47Z")
> [@fmhoyt](#): > > So the questions are why did they consider her laptop to be a potential bomb, and how would I avoid having them consider mine the same way? > … Perhaps [this](http://www.wesleyjsmith.com/blog/uploaded_images/Bomb-706581.jpg) was her wallpaper? ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2009, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/111 "2009-12-22T01:38:48Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Don’t the Israelis think their brutish behavior reflects badly on them? If they did not want her computer in, they could have confiscated it and gave it back when she left. I suspect that somebody who hates them calling them ‘brutish’ doesn’t concern them overly much. Do you have any idea of the trouble ‘confiscating, and giving back when they leave’ would entail? hh ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/112 "2009-12-29T16:37:45Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Me too. I don’t see what’s so protesty about entering Israel from Egypt. In all fairness, I can see how it’d look protest-y. American student goes on a “save Palestine” trip to the Middle East, tools around Egypt, maybe takes a gander at the Gaza border (if Egyptian security lets people get that close - does anyone know?), then heads to Tel Aviv for an afternoon of placards and bullhorns. Not that there’s anything wrong with that - regardless of whether such a protestor’s position is “correct”, I think it’s important to let people do that sort of thing, and the idea of keeping out “protest tourists” strikes me as unpleasant. But on the facts, it’s not crazy to look at this kid and see a likely “protest tourist”. That being said - when my sister planned a trip to Israel, she planned to do the exact opposite of this kid’s itinerary, and head to Egypt from Israel. Nothing protest-y about it, she just has a friend there. Incidentally, I see nothing hypocritical or inconsistent in “protest tourists” flocking to Israel instead of Iran or Saudi Arabia. It’s a sort of back-handed compliment, really - these tourists, even as they decry Israeli human rights abuses, have enough trust in Israeli law that they expect to engage in their protest, and return home unharmed. In fact, they expect to be able to persuade Israelis to change their minds, and then vote in free and fair elections for politicians who’ll change Israeli policy. On the flip side, it would be nuts to have that kind of expectation about Saudi Arabia - and I don’t think a desire to avoid Saudi prisons makes a person (even a misguided one) a hypocrite. (ETA: I don’t know that this kid was on a “save palestine” trip - I was just describing a “protest tourist” scenario, and a speculative one, that would fit these facts. My apologies - I should have been more clear about that.) ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/113 "2009-12-29T16:46:32Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Right. And my friend from high school who forgot her saxophone in a public bathroom - the police blew it up because they’re not jazz fans, huh? > > Face it: there was nothing unique or personal about what happened. As for “denying her the use of her laptop”… you know they sell computers here, right? OK, Macs are a bit overpriced (Israelis don’t like Macs), but she could have picked up a decent PC (or a cheap netbook) at any mall in the country. Have you _tried_ typing on a netbook? With those tiny keyboard, and screens? It’s brutal! Cruel and unusual. 😃 (Sick think is, I actually took the essay portion of the Maryland Bar Exam on my netbook. I must be nuts.) ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2010, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/114 "2010-01-02T09:25:56Z")
The most absurd part of this all is the idea of disabling or blowing up a computer by shooting it through the monitor. The reason the hard drive could be returned to her undamaged is because it’s located under the base. There’s a lot more room in the base for explosives, anyways. Although the heat generated by a MacBook itself could probably detonate an explosive down there. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2010, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/115 "2010-01-02T15:24:03Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > The most absurd part of this all is the idea of disabling or blowing up a computer by shooting it through the monitor. The reason the hard drive could be returned to her undamaged is because it’s located under the base. There’s a lot more room in the base for explosives, anyways. Although the heat generated by a MacBook itself could probably detonate an explosive down there. I thought it was shot in her luggage, with the lid down. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2010, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/116 "2010-01-02T16:43:15Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > The most absurd part of this all is the idea of disabling or blowing up a computer by shooting it through the monitor. [Perhaps they watched too much movies and TV.](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ComputerEqualsMonitor) ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/117 "2010-01-03T08:54:55Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I thought it was shot in her luggage, with the lid down. 🙂 Now that I look at the picture again, the bullet holes are also in the bottom, so you’re right, it must have been shut when it was terminated. If this had been my PC laptop, my hard drive would have been directly under the left-most bullet hole and not salvageable. ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/118 "2010-01-03T16:54:46Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I thought it was shot in her luggage, with the lid down. 🙂 [Professional Opinion] One does not open a suspect laptop. If one must shoot it, one will shoot it _as is_. [/Professional Opinion] Tripler That’s all. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/119 "2010-01-08T12:36:24Z")
I propose that, to the rich lexicon of international gun lore that gave us “Russian Roulette” and “Mexican Standoff,” we add “Israeli Minesweeper.” ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458/120 "2010-01-08T13:31:06Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > During the IRA bombing campaign in London in the 1970s, my great-aunt had a bag of cabbages blown up for similar reasons. Yes, but did the police make them stew for two hours? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-shoot-u-s-students-laptop-upon-entry-to-israel/521458.md?page=7)