# Police: Teens killed man -- just because **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 20, 2013, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-teens-killed-man-just-because/666717 "2013-08-20T15:04:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-teens-killed-man-just-because/666717/161 "2013-08-25T13:16:10Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > School mass shootings are synonymous with “white male.” Try again. Seung-Hui Cho is basically the whitest name out there. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-teens-killed-man-just-because/666717/162 "2013-08-25T13:29:26Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > Seung-Hui Cho is basically the whitest name out there. So one Korean-American kid breaks the statistics? ---
**Author:** ![Tethered\_Kite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a5b964/32.png) [@Tethered\_Kite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tethered_Kite)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-teens-killed-man-just-because/666717/163 "2013-08-25T15:58:30Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > [Link](http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2013/0823/Chris-Lane-murder-Is-a-racist-dimension-of-the-crime-being-discounted) Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-teens-killed-man-just-because/666717/164 "2013-08-25T15:59:56Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > So one Korean-American kid breaks the statistics? Considering the number of school shootings and the number of his victims, I’d say it and **Ferret Herders’s** [earlier reference to Brenda Anne Spencer](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16590522&postcount=40) together do a pretty good job of refuting the idea that school mass shootings are “synonymous” with white males, yeah. ---
**Author:** ![Tethered\_Kite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a5b964/32.png) [@Tethered\_Kite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tethered_Kite)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-teens-killed-man-just-because/666717/165 "2013-08-25T22:18:57Z")
I don’t think you can compare this type of shooting to the school shootings. Most school shooters are mentally ill. The motivations are different as well as the frequency of occurrence. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-teens-killed-man-just-because/666717/166 "2013-08-25T22:59:32Z")
> **[At Last We Know Why the Columbine Killers Did It](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2004/04/at-last-we-know-why-the-columbine-killers-did-it.html)** > > Most Americans have reached one of two wrong conclusions. Not all school shooters are sociopaths, but I believe many are. The emblematic school shooting of this era, Columbine, was perpetrated by a sociopath, Harris, and his emotionally troubled follower, Klebold. > [@](#): > > But Harris was cold, calculating, and homicidal. “Klebold was hurting inside while Harris wanted to hurt people,” Fuselier says. Harris was not merely a troubled kid, the psychiatrists say, he was a psychopath. > > In popular usage, almost any crazy killer is a “psychopath.” But in psychiatry, it’s a very specific mental condition that rarely involves killing, or even psychosis. “Psychopaths are not disoriented or out of touch with reality, nor do they experience the delusions, hallucinations, or intense subjective distress that characterize most other mental disorders,” writes Dr. Robert Hare, in Without Conscience, the seminal book on the condition. (Hare is also one of the psychologists consulted by the FBI about Columbine and by Slate for this story \*.) “Unlike psychotic individuals, psychopaths are rational and aware of what they are doing and why. Their behavior is the result of choice, freely exercised.” Based on the information we have now, I feel confident in saying that Edwards is also a sociopath, and killed for the same reasons as Harris - self-aggrandizement and a need for stimulation. You’ll notice in the article on the Harris and Klebold, that Harris’ personal diaries were full of diatribes about all the people he hated. They correspond fairly well to Edward’s hateful tweets. ---
**Author:** ![Tethered\_Kite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a5b964/32.png) [@Tethered\_Kite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tethered_Kite)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-teens-killed-man-just-because/666717/167 "2013-08-26T13:36:04Z")
There’s more than a little evidence that Edward’s motivations were gang-related. Killing for acceptance to a group is different than killing to go out in a blaze of glory. Harris’ hatred has less of a racial aspect than Edward’s. They may have both been psychopaths but the motivations don’t seem the same to me. Random thought. I wonder if more of the school shooters are more of the wounded child type of mentally ill and less the psychopathic. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-teens-killed-man-just-because/666717/168 "2013-08-26T14:33:33Z")
> [@crucible](#): > > Really? I don’t see much support for or against the idea of making the penalties for ‘thrill’ killings, or ‘gang initiation’ killing far more draconian than it is now. anyone fancy a poll? Yes, really. I would not ever want to be alone with anyone who thinks like you do. I honestly be in fear of my health if I did something you thought was wrong. The fact that you not only think those thoughts but thought nothing of revealing them here indicates that you think wanting to torture people is normal. Not just when you are angry and aren’t thinking straight, but all the time. The whole idea of avoiding cruel and unusual punishment is even in our constitution, for goodness sake. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-teens-killed-man-just-because/666717/169 "2013-08-26T14:36:46Z")
> [@crucible](#): > > People talk as though these kids have no sense of right or wrong, that they were conditioned by their upbringing and the video games, etc. to commit senseless crimes. Explain the 99% who have the same situations and who manage to control their impulse to kill someone to make things more interesting? > > When someone who can not be otherwise identified as a threat (suddenly, out of the blue, decides to become a thrill killer), giving anyone else in society the idea that they will become the center of attention, be studied, wondered about, written about, talked about, vilified by most but glorified by a very few…the quickest way to shut off those impulses to duplicate that sort of behavior is to provide quick and severe punishment. Demonstrate the sort of ‘attention’ that sort of behavior gets you. Go away. Please. Your bullshit has already been debunked, and your continued instance that things work is only due to sadism. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-teens-killed-man-just-because/666717/170 "2013-08-26T14:39:32Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > How? > > Possession and sale of these guns is already illegal. > > Stop-and-frisk everyone? Might work. Not constitutional. Work on keeping them from being sold in the first place. You can in fact stop them at that point, if the NRA had not deliberately lobbied to defund the federal organizations that could do so. We may not be able to stop you from having them, but we can keep them from being sold. Oh, and stop and frisk isn’t illegal. It’s only illegal when it’s racially targeted. See the recent Supreme Court judgement. You can always be checked for contraband, guns included. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-teens-killed-man-just-because/666717/171 "2013-08-26T16:02:27Z")
so what does Obama have to say about this? Not a “racial” killing? Jessie Jackson’s comment was a hoot-it should be “frowned upon”. “Rev.” Sharpton says “the system worked”. At least we know where these champions of civil rights stand! ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-teens-killed-man-just-because/666717/172 "2013-08-26T16:17:03Z")
> [@Tethered\_Kite](#): > > There’s more than a little evidence that Edward’s motivations were gang-related. Killing for acceptance to a group is different than killing to go out in a blaze of glory. Not very different, no. Joining a gang is all about self-aggrandizement and stimulation, in addition to the monetary rewards. Gangs as a whole and individual gang members routinely commit acts of violence, including murder, as a way of strengthening their reputations. Glory. Fame. Even infamy is better than being unknown. It’s almost a cliche of gang life for members to talk about the increase in respect they gained after they joined the gang. > [@](#): > > Harris’ hatred has less of a racial aspect than Edward’s. Not necessarily: [http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Transcripts\_of\_"The\_Basement\_Tapes"\_of\_Eric\_Harris\_and\_Dylan\_Klebold](http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Transcripts_of_%22The_Basement_Tapes%22_of_Eric_Harris_and_Dylan_Klebold) > [@](#): > > March 18, 1999 > > Evidence item #265 > > They talk about a couple of people, one of whom Eric says he wants to “shoot in the groin area”. They talk about someone named Jesse Gordon and “the Goof Troop”. They then go on a racist tirade, talking about how that “nigger stopped us that day” and how black people talk in “Ebonics”. They bash on “spics”. It appears that the other people on Edwards’ and company’s kill list were black. Of course, they could have targeted one person for one reason, and other people for different reasons. Edwards may have been aware that killing a white person would bring him more fame (infamy) than killing a black person. > [@](#): > > They may have both been psychopaths but the motivations don’t seem the same to me. > > Random thought. I wonder if more of the school shooters are more of the wounded child type of mentally ill and less the psychopathic. I definitely wouldn’t call Harris a wounded child. Klebold, maybe. Edwards obviously wouldn’t qualify either. His followers might. I’m reluctant to give them any kind of pass, though. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-teens-killed-man-just-because/666717/173 "2013-08-26T16:22:16Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > so what does Obama have to say about this? Not a “racial” killing? Jessie Jackson’s comment was a hoot-it should be “frowned upon”. “Rev.” Sharpton says “the system worked”. > At least we know where these champions of civil rights stand! The perps were arrested shortly after the crime was committed. They’ve been charged, and will most likely be convicted. Are you maintaining that the system failed? If so, how? ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-teens-killed-man-just-because/666717/174 "2013-08-26T16:26:03Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Work on keeping them from being sold in the first place. You can in fact stop them at that point, if the NRA had not deliberately lobbied to defund the federal organizations that could do so. > > We may not be able to stop you from having them, but we can keep them from being sold. > > Oh, and stop and frisk isn’t illegal. It’s only illegal when it’s racially targeted. See the recent Supreme Court judgement. You can always be checked for contraband, guns included. Always? Without a reasonable suspicion? (Not a rhetorical question. I’m not up on the case law.) ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-teens-killed-man-just-because/666717/175 "2013-08-27T03:20:39Z")
> [@ducati](#): > > \*\*\*My \*\*\*son is a good kid. He’s an Eagle Scout. He saved a life with CPR. He saved the life of a fallen rock climber with proper first aid and having a radio to call for help where cell phones don’t work. He leads food drives. He graduated school with a 3.98 GPA. He’s doing the same in college, where his goal is to become an FBI agent like his G,G, grandfather. And for all you know, her son might have done exactly the same things before he murdered someone. She’s her mother, and probably never envisioned in her worst nightares that he could do something like that. Exactly like you. She’s in disbelief, and it seems to me that’s the case of almost all parents of criminals. Give the woman a break. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-teens-killed-man-just-because/666717/176 "2013-08-27T03:36:22Z")
> [@crucible](#): > > .but violence against another person, particularly senseless violence, or hate crime, or …whatever…how can we not think that very extreme penalties would help curb those impulses??? If harsh sentences were an efficient deterrent…we wouldn’t need harsh sentences. Nobody thinking rationally would take the risk of spending, say, 10 years in jail just to satisfy an impulse. People acting this way think they won’t be caught or don’t think at all. Criminals who could be deterred by harsh sentences would be those who act thoughtfully, balancing risk and reward. White collar crimes or such things, for instance. And even then, a higher likelihood of being caught would probably be a better deterrent than a harsher sentence. ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-teens-killed-man-just-because/666717/177 "2013-08-27T03:57:03Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > If harsh sentences were an efficient deterrent…we wouldn’t need harsh sentences. Nobody thinking rationally would take the risk of spending, say, 10 years in jail just to satisfy an impulse. People acting this way think they won’t be caught or don’t think at all. > > Criminals who could be deterred by harsh sentences would be those who act thoughtfully, balancing risk and reward. White collar crimes or such things, for instance. And even then, a higher likelihood of being caught would probably be a better deterrent than a harsher sentence. Exactly. No one fucked up enough to want to murder someone just for kicks is going to think twice due to the possibility to spending 40 years in jail versus a mere 15. And a white collar criminal is going to be deterred by a strong possibility of \*any \*prison time. The only valid reason to lock someone up for 50 years or whatever is to protect society from very dangerous people who are likely to reoffend (and not everyone who commits even heinous crimes is likely to reoffend). And if you’re going to lock someone up for that long, it pretty much needs to be life without parole, because at that point they’re probably going to be incapable of handling freedom. ---
**Author:** ![crucible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@crucible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crucible)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-teens-killed-man-just-because/666717/178 "2013-08-28T03:48:31Z")
> [@Blackberry](#): > > Exactly. No one fucked up enough to want to murder someone just for kicks is going to think twice due to the possibility to spending 40 years in jail versus a mere 15. And a white collar criminal is going to be deterred by a strong possibility of \*any \*prison time. The only valid reason to lock someone up for 50 years or whatever is to protect society from very dangerous people who are likely to reoffend (and not everyone who commits even heinous crimes is likely to reoffend). And if you’re going to lock someone up for that long, it pretty much needs to be life without parole, because at that point they’re probably going to be incapable of handling freedom. lThe fact is, these boys were incapable of handling freedom already…can anyone give any rational reason they should ever be on the street again, ever? A few people think that giving them a medal for good conduct before and after they senselessly killed a young man who had a promising future would be appropriate. I think they should be quickly and publicly killed by the state for the crime of premeditated murder with no extenuating circumstances. Where is the logic of any other fate for them? ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-teens-killed-man-just-because/666717/179 "2013-08-28T03:53:17Z")
> [@crucible](#): > > lThe fact is, these boys were incapable of handling freedom already…can anyone give any rational reason they should ever be on the street again, ever? A few people think that giving them a medal for good conduct before and after they senselessly killed a young man who had a promising future would be appropriate. Actually, no, no one thinks that. > [@](#): > > I think they should be quickly and publicly killed by the state for the crime of premeditated murder with no extenuating circumstances. Where is the logic of any other fate for them? There are tons of logical reasons to be against the death penalty. But like I already said, they are too dangerous to ever be let out of prison, probably. Definitely the ring leader. Probably all of them. ---
**Author:** ![crucible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@crucible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crucible)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-teens-killed-man-just-because/666717/180 "2013-08-28T13:25:15Z")
> [@Blackberry](#): > > Actually, no, no one thinks that. > There are tons of logical reasons to be against the death penalty. But like I already said, they are too dangerous to ever be let out of prison, probably. Definitely the ring leader. Probably all of them. Taking everything into consideration, that is what should happen, under our current system. Anything that involves witness testimony, even from a cop, should be allowed to work its way through the courts for decades if needed. If the accused is then released, pay them for their time of incarceration, at least. But when the culprit is obvious, the crime is heinous and the object is to make sure no one else thinks that killing for fun is a way to make a name for themself…quick, sure, severe punishment is what we need. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-teens-killed-man-just-because/666717.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-teens-killed-man-just-because/666717.md?page=10)