# Police use info from genealogy site to ID the Golden State Killer suspect. Does that bother you? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 27, 2018, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-use-info-from-genealogy-site-to-id-the-golden-state-killer-suspect-does-that-bother-you/813200 "2018-04-27T01:35:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tastes_of_chocolate/32/3232_2.png) [@Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tastes_of_Chocolate)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-use-info-from-genealogy-site-to-id-the-golden-state-killer-suspect-does-that-bother-you/813200/1 "2018-04-27T01:35:30Z")
[Police used DNA info on genealogy websites to track down Golden State Killer suspect](https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/26/us/golden-state-killer-dna-report/index.html) The Sacramento DA’s office matched DNA from a crime site against a genealogy website database, to narrow down the search for the Golden State Killer. My mom wants to have the whole family do one of the [Ancestry.com/23andMe](http://Ancestry.com/23andMe) type DNA reports. I’ve resisted, since all of the contracts I’ve looked at have a clause buried someplace in them that allows the company to do any darn thing they want with the info. I’m not planning on committing any crimes, but I can foresee a future where my insurance rates, or even my ability to get a job, may be affected by my genetics. There isn’t much I can do to stop it, but I can do my little bit to slow it down. Anyway, I hadn’t thought about the police using this database to find suspects. While I’m glad that the (hopefully correct) suspect has been found, I’m leery of this brave new world, where my relatives DNA rat me out. Am I over-worrying? Is it to late, and that future is already here? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-use-info-from-genealogy-site-to-id-the-golden-state-killer-suspect-does-that-bother-you/813200/2 "2018-04-27T11:08:22Z")
I think you raise two separate issues. It doesn’t bother me that police used a tool that was available to them to solve murder and rape cases that otherwise might never have been concluded – that’s their job, to use any tool at their disposal to solve crimes. But at a time when we’re talking about the ethics and possible abuses of big data, I agree that we need to consider how the ultimate form of big data - our DNA - can be used against us. Corporations from insurance companies to our employers could use our DNA against us in ways we probably can’t even imagine. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-use-info-from-genealogy-site-to-id-the-golden-state-killer-suspect-does-that-bother-you/813200/3 "2018-04-27T11:09:10Z")
Oof. For me, this is a tough one. Certainly we need to be careful in giving the government, especially law enforcement, access to any kinds of personal data. On the other hand, the suspect is allegedly responsible for 12 deaths and 50+ rapes (per the article). If the crime spree occurred today (and assuming the DNA evidence could have been used in the same way) would it be worth it if the spree was stopped after, say, 6 deaths and 25 rapes? It’s one of those areas where I understand both sides and disagree with neither. I guess I’d lean towards allowing law enforcement to have access to such information but protected by something like warrants. I’m probably against letting corporations use it but should we prevent people from using their DNA in ways that help them? Say someone wants health insurance and can show that they have low genetic disposition for common diseases. Should the insurance company be allowed to offer them a lower rate? (Of course we could get around this by offering UHC.) ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-use-info-from-genealogy-site-to-id-the-golden-state-killer-suspect-does-that-bother-you/813200/4 "2018-04-27T13:38:06Z")
Ancestry and 23andMe will not “do anything they want” with your data. And specifically are not currently a possible tool for what the investigators did here. They used a publicly open database, GEDmatch, that by design lets users do a lot more. Mainly because that is convenient for Genealogical work, but it obviously also opens up for investigations, unless that’s barred by law. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-use-info-from-genealogy-site-to-id-the-golden-state-killer-suspect-does-that-bother-you/813200/5 "2018-04-27T13:41:52Z")
No problem whatsoever with it. Wish everybody’s DNA was in a database accessible by police. Solve a lot of crimes. ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-use-info-from-genealogy-site-to-id-the-golden-state-killer-suspect-does-that-bother-you/813200/6 "2018-04-27T13:48:18Z")
As long as police utilize DNA to identify a suspect, I have absolutely no problem with them using any bit of the information for solving crimes. In fact, the way in which they use DNA, the pattern-matching of genetic markers, is little different from matching suspects on eye color, hair color, height, or the clothes they wear. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-use-info-from-genealogy-site-to-id-the-golden-state-killer-suspect-does-that-bother-you/813200/7 "2018-04-27T14:10:37Z")
My view is that, if you haven’t done anything wrong, then you shouldn’t be worried about an investigative tool such as DNA identification. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-use-info-from-genealogy-site-to-id-the-golden-state-killer-suspect-does-that-bother-you/813200/8 "2018-04-27T14:19:56Z")
A DNA database seems no different ethically than a fingerprint database, except that there’s now a way to connect subjects to each other. I don’t see any new issues. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-use-info-from-genealogy-site-to-id-the-golden-state-killer-suspect-does-that-bother-you/813200/9 "2018-04-27T14:27:57Z")
I’m conflicted about this, too. Of course I’m happy that they got the guy (assuming it’s the right guy). But, like **Deeg** and **Tastes of Chocolate** , I have misgivings about the police having access to this type and amount of data. I’m not sure yet where I come down on this. I wonder how this was done, technically. The article says the four main DNA analysis companies deny working with the cops. I’m ignorant of how forensic DNA analysis works, but is the following scenario possible? The cops sign up for each of the major DNA analysis companies just as regular customers; they get a little DNA from one of their samples and replicate enough of it to fill all the test tubes; they submit the samples and wait for the results; the DNA companies send back the results, which include the members the “customer” might be related to; the cops then track down those members using their traditional tools. The DNA analysis companies have no idea they provided information to the cops. The cops didn’t need to get a warrant or anything, since they were just using freely available resources and gathering data from customers who had willingly submitted their DNA and allowed the companies to use it to match potential relatives. Is this realistic? I think it matters because in that case, the cops didn’t go to the companies and compel them to cooperate. They just took advantage of people’s tendency to overshare information. I’m still not sure where I land on the issue, but I think I’m somehow more comfortable with the cops just using the tools the way the companies advertised them and the customers agreed to, rather than the cops going to the companies with a DNA sequence and a warrant. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-use-info-from-genealogy-site-to-id-the-golden-state-killer-suspect-does-that-bother-you/813200/10 "2018-04-27T14:28:32Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > No problem whatsoever with it. Wish everybody’s DNA was in a database accessible by police. Solve a lot of crimes. > [@](#): > > My view is that, if you haven’t done anything wrong, then you shouldn’t be worried about an investigative tool such as DNA identification. Wow! The OP did not trouble me nearly as much as the attitude in these two posts. My wife ands I place a high value on privacy and anonymity, and realize it is an increasingly losing battle in today’s society. One thing that is troubling about this DNA linkage, is that (the non-crime scene genetic info) it is not necessarily information you voluntarily disclosed, but instead, it was disclosed by others. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-use-info-from-genealogy-site-to-id-the-golden-state-killer-suspect-does-that-bother-you/813200/11 "2018-04-27T14:37:56Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > A DNA database seems no different ethically than a fingerprint database, except that there’s now a way to connect subjects to each other. I don’t see any new issues. Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. I can understand the concern about corporations using the data for nefarious purposes, but the police have access all kinds of information about us, and this is just another one of those things. > [@Jasmine](#): > > My view is that, if you haven’t done anything wrong, then you shouldn’t be worried about an investigative tool such as DNA identification. Well, let’s not go overboard in our trust of the police. That view can be dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-use-info-from-genealogy-site-to-id-the-golden-state-killer-suspect-does-that-bother-you/813200/12 "2018-04-27T14:41:50Z")
> [@naita](#): > > Ancestry and 23andMe will not “do anything they want” with your data. And specifically are not currently a possible tool for what the investigators did here. They used a publicly open database, GEDmatch, that by design lets users do a lot more. Mainly because that is convenient for Genealogical work, but it obviously also opens up for investigations, unless that’s barred by law. As described in this [article](https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/26/17288532/golden-state-killer-east-area-rapist-genealogy-websites-dna-genetic-investigation), investigators used GEDMatch. > [@](#): > > The website is a place where people share their full genetic information — entirely in public — so there are no legal hurdles for investigators trying to track someone down. By contrast, private DNA sites like Ancestry and 23andMe tend to be choosier when it comes to complying with police requests. > > In a statement to The Verge, GEDmatch said it was not aware of the investigation. “Although we were not approached by law enforcement or anyone else about this case or about the DNA, it has always been GEDmatch’s policy to inform users that the database could be used for other uses, as set forth in the Site Policy,” the statement reads. “While the database was created for genealogical research, it is important that GEDmatch participants understand the possible uses of their DNA, including identification of relatives that have committed crimes or were victims of crimes.” ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-use-info-from-genealogy-site-to-id-the-golden-state-killer-suspect-does-that-bother-you/813200/13 "2018-04-27T14:42:07Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > My view is that, if you haven’t done anything wrong, then you shouldn’t be worried about an investigative tool such as DNA identification. That’s correct in principle, but it’s not clear to me what the false positive error rate of DNA identification is. If someone else happens to have the same SNPs at the locations that are tested, you’re going to be extremely inconvenienced. We have the same problem with fingerprints: a lot of promotion of the myth that everyone is unique, but little attention to the failure modes of each biometric. Of course, the best way to know the limitations of a biometric is to sample everyone and see how many cross-matches we get among different people. But I’d be concerned that there’d be a lot of false prosecutions and convictions based on spurious matches before the “everyone is unique” myth has faded. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-use-info-from-genealogy-site-to-id-the-golden-state-killer-suspect-does-that-bother-you/813200/14 "2018-04-27T14:51:00Z")
> [@naita](#): > > Ancestry and 23andMe will not “do anything they want” with your data. And specifically are not currently a possible tool for what the investigators did here. They used a publicly open database, GEDmatch, that by design lets users do a lot more. Mainly because that is convenient for Genealogical work, but it obviously also opens up for investigations, unless that’s barred by law. I don’t think anyone has paid any attention to this, certainly people are talking past it. What the OP said was basically wrong…companies like Ancestry and 23 and me don’t do what the OP is saying. Here is some info on [GEDmatch](https://www.quora.com/What-is-GEDMatch-and-why-would-I-want-to-use-it): > [@](#): > > GEDMatch is not a DNA testing company. Rather, it is a third party free website (operated by generous volunteers) for analysis and comparison of raw autosomal DNA data from other fee-based genetic genealogy testing companies. > > The DNA testing companies that you have listed in the question are limited in their ability to compare your autosomal DNA test results with the other participants that were tested earlier or that may come later. > > Suppose, as an example, that you chose [Ancestry.com](http://Ancestry.com) (Acom) as your preferred autosomal DNA tester and the cousin connection that you are looking for, in order to locate that great grandparent that you are both descended from, used a different testing company such as 23andMe or FTDNA. > > Don’t get me wrong here. Acom does a fantastic job of finding DNA matches for your results. It’s just that they can’t find matches for a DNA test they don’t have. > > In short, you are not going to find that key cousin because his/her DNA is not in the Acom DNA database. That’s not good because that unlisted cousin may just have the answer to the research question that you are trying to answer. > > That’s one reason why GEDMatch exists. It allows you to identify additional unknown cousins who have not tested at the same company that you tested with, by encouraging all those folks who were tested elsewhere to have their DNA results compared to yours at GEDMatch. > > Another reason is DNA analysis. For instance Acom does not tell you how much DNA is shared or where that DNA might be shared. Sometimes that missing information may be key in making the connections that are needed in your research. Using GEDMatch allows you to find out the amount of DNA that is shared with another. So, no…it doesn’t bother me at all that the Police used an open source site designed to be used exactly like this and who’s participants knew (or should know) that the information they share is open for searching. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-use-info-from-genealogy-site-to-id-the-golden-state-killer-suspect-does-that-bother-you/813200/15 "2018-04-27T14:53:02Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > That’s correct in principle, but it’s not clear to me what the false positive error rate of DNA identification is. If someone else happens to have the same SNPs at the locations that are tested, you’re going to be extremely inconvenienced. We have the same problem with fingerprints: a lot of promotion of the myth that everyone is unique, but little attention to the failure modes of each biometric. Nothing is foolproof. Guess what, though; the error rate in those scientific methods is much smaller than the testimony of eyewitnesses, long the bastion of proof in a courtroom. [\*\*Why Science Tells Us Not to Rely on Eyewitness Accounts \*\*](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/do-the-eyes-have-it/) I’ll take my chances with modern science any day over the often faulty judgment of human beings. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-use-info-from-genealogy-site-to-id-the-golden-state-killer-suspect-does-that-bother-you/813200/16 "2018-04-27T14:57:23Z")
> [@Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](#): > > My mom wants to have the whole family do one of the [Ancestry.com/23andMe](http://Ancestry.com/23andMe) type DNA reports. She’s just curious to know who your father is. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-use-info-from-genealogy-site-to-id-the-golden-state-killer-suspect-does-that-bother-you/813200/17 "2018-04-27T14:59:19Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > Nothing is foolproof. Guess what, though; the error rate in those scientific methods is much smaller than the testimony of eyewitnesses, long the bastion of proof in a courtroom. > > [\*\*Why Science Tells Us Not to Rely on Eyewitness Accounts \*\*](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/do-the-eyes-have-it/) > > I’ll take my chances with modern science any day over the often faulty judgment of human beings. (Font size regularized.) Exactly right. The problem is the general public believes, and prosecutors promote, the view that fingerprints and now DNA identification are foolproof. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-use-info-from-genealogy-site-to-id-the-golden-state-killer-suspect-does-that-bother-you/813200/18 "2018-04-27T14:59:24Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Wow! The OP did not trouble me nearly as much as the attitude in these two posts. > > My wife ands I place a high value on privacy and anonymity, and realize it is an increasingly losing battle in today’s society. One thing that is troubling about this DNA linkage, is that (the non-crime scene genetic info) it is not necessarily information you voluntarily disclosed, but instead, it was disclosed by others. You mean like if I submit my genetic information, it’s problematic because it is also my sister’s genetic information in many ways? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-use-info-from-genealogy-site-to-id-the-golden-state-killer-suspect-does-that-bother-you/813200/19 "2018-04-27T15:38:36Z")
> [@74westy](#): > > She’s just curious to know who your father is. This isn’t junior high, knock it off. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-use-info-from-genealogy-site-to-id-the-golden-state-killer-suspect-does-that-bother-you/813200/20 "2018-04-27T15:48:06Z")
> [@Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](#): > > Anyway, I hadn’t thought about the police using this database to find suspects. While I’m glad that the (hopefully correct) suspect has been found, I’m leery of this brave new world, where my relatives DNA rat me out. Are you afraid of being “ratted out” or are you afraid of being falsely implicated in a crime because evidence was overly influenced by DNA? To me, those are two different concerns and one is less sympathetic than the other. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-use-info-from-genealogy-site-to-id-the-golden-state-killer-suspect-does-that-bother-you/813200.md?page=2)