# Police want to search my home in murder investigation **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 10, 2009, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-want-to-search-my-home-in-murder-investigation/517107 "2009-11-10T23:26:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Logical\_Phallacy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Logical\_Phallacy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Logical_Phallacy)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-want-to-search-my-home-in-murder-investigation/517107/261 "2009-11-13T05:09:19Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > Okay, as promised, some Canadian legal commentary that should answer \*\*Swallowed My Cellphone’s \*\*earlier questions as well as be applicable to the OP’s concerns about events in Toronto. Note that these come from notes, materials, and other resources I have on file. Usual disclaimers apply; I am not your lawyer, you are not my client, this is information only and not legal advice. Thank you so much for all the heavily-cited relevant research!!! I can’t recall if you personally weighed in on the question of whether or not you’d let them into your house, I will go search now. ---
**Author:** ![groo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecd19e/32.png) [@groo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/groo)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-want-to-search-my-home-in-murder-investigation/517107/262 "2009-11-13T07:13:17Z")
Wow … I don’t know if I’ve ever been on the opposite side of an opinion from Dio before. It’s an uncertain feeling. I love living a block and a half from my police station. I love that when I dialed 911 a few months ago when a fight broke out at a neighbor’s party, they showed up in no time flat. But they’re not coming in without a warrant; not for a month-old case. I have broken no laws, and I have nothing to fear. Really nothing. I have gotten random drug tests at work. I have signed agreements to be subject to polygraph tests. You won’t find a cleaner, more law abiding person than me. But they still don’t get in without a warrant. Either they have a good reason to search my home or they don’t. If there’s a good reason, it’ll be made clear to me and to the police by the existence of the search warrant. If this is just some informal, “give the cops a break,” issue, well, I know I’m law-abiding, and when they ask me if a missing 18 year old woman is in my home, I’ll say that there isn’t, and since it’s just an informal thing, they should believe me. I mean, we’re all friends here, right? ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-want-to-search-my-home-in-murder-investigation/517107/263 "2009-11-13T10:42:07Z")
> [@intention](#): > > … > > Again, you are conflating law with morality. Lots of people get punished by the law who don’t deserve it … which clearly means that they are different things. > > As you point out, you are not allowed to cherrypick the laws you follow. As you point out, if you are caught, you will get punished. > > But this does not mean that you deserve to get punished. > > Nobody deserves to be punished for drinking from a fountain marked “Whites Only”. Yes, if they are arrested for it, they will get punished. And yes, you can’t bitch about it, if you can’t do the time, don’t do the crime. > > But on my planet, that still doesn’t mean that drinking from a “Whites Only” fountain is an action that deserves punishment, no matter what the law says. > > By your logic, since it was illegal to be Jewish in Germany during WWII, they deserved to be thrown in concentration camps … sure you want to go with that one? In Saudi Arabia, it’s punishable by death to convert from Islam to Buddhism and speak out against Islam (apostasy). Do people who have committed that heinous crime deserve to be put to death? Or are they simply being put to death for breaking an immoral, unjust law? > > Me, I still say “broke the law” does not equal “deserves to be punished”. Doesn’t mean you can cherrypick the laws. Doesn’t mean you won’t get punished if you break them. But it also doesn’t mean you deserve to be punished. You knowingly break a law, you deserve to get punished. If you feel a law is unjust, take legal means to remove the law. The law is the law, follow it or get punished. How many people upstream are saying that if you get searched and they find \ they deserve to get punished? ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-want-to-search-my-home-in-murder-investigation/517107/264 "2009-11-13T11:30:31Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > The law is the law, follow it or get punished. The police have to prove that you’ve broken a law. Which is why you shouldn’t let them search you or your house unless they have a warrant to do so. The converse is true, of course. If you’re such a stickler for the law then every time you go over the speed limit, or forget to use your signal, or cross the road where you’re not supposed to, or ride your bike on the side walk, etc, we expect you to turn yourself in to the closest police officer to get a ticket. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-want-to-search-my-home-in-murder-investigation/517107/265 "2009-11-13T13:12:49Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Sure, those are crimes. How about the record collection stored in milk crates? Unlicensed or too many pets? > > There is no doubt that in your residence _right now_, you have violated some crime or code infraction. Most likely something minor, something you don;t know is a crime or don’t think about as really illegal. \*Everyone has. > \* Bullshit. I seem to recall you’ve made this claim before and been unable to back it up. ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-want-to-search-my-home-in-murder-investigation/517107/266 "2009-11-13T14:26:48Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > **Swallowed My Cellphone** , if I recall correctly, you’re in Canada, right? Yup, but I’m a U.S. ex-pat. Most of my schooling was in Michigan, so I’m more familiar with the Fourth Amendment than the Charter. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-want-to-search-my-home-in-murder-investigation/517107/267 "2009-11-13T14:30:05Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Bullshit. > > I seem to recall you’ve made this claim before and been unable to back it up. It’s illegal if the police think it is. They’re sort of Vampiric Nixons you have to let in your home. ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-want-to-search-my-home-in-murder-investigation/517107/268 "2009-11-13T14:33:12Z")
:smack: Forgot to say THANKS for your research! ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-want-to-search-my-home-in-murder-investigation/517107/269 "2009-11-13T18:21:51Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > As it’s been said several times, allowing the police voluntary access to your home violates no rights. Also, putting you on a suspect’s list violates no rights as you do not have the right to not be suspected of anything. If refusing a warrantless search causes me to be put on a list of suspects to a crime that the police have no other reason to suspect me of, then requesting said search is unreasonable. The fourth amendment protects me against unreasonable searches. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-want-to-search-my-home-in-murder-investigation/517107/270 "2009-11-13T18:34:10Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Eliminating suspects is normal police methdology. All they’re trying to do is remove you as a suspect. If I am a suspect, then they will have no problem obtaining a proper warrant. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-want-to-search-my-home-in-murder-investigation/517107/271 "2009-11-13T18:37:06Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The _right_ thing to do is help the cops eliminate you as a suspect so they can narrow the search for the kid. Just because you _can_ say no, doesn’t mean it’s the ethically preferable thing to do. Geez Dio, the ethics is bound on the cops, not the schlub in the neighborhood. In the US, our rights are sacrosanct, and the cops are obliged to keep that in mind and act accordingly. While the specifics of what the rights are may be different in Canada, I am sure the obligation is still on the police to justify a search, or risk having it thrown out as coercive. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-want-to-search-my-home-in-murder-investigation/517107/272 "2009-11-13T19:04:44Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > Did anyone else notice this quote from the article: > (my bolding) > > Now I know in the USA, that isn’t the case - the police cannot use your refusal to consent to a search as grounds for a warrant. Is it really the case in Canada, that merely exercising your rights is grounds for abrogating them, or is this cop just talking out his ass? I think the implication is, if you have anything fishy to worry about, the cops already know about it (or want you to think they do) and they will go get a warrant on that basis. More BS. Just get a warrant in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![intention](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e95f7d/32.png) [@intention](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/intention)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-want-to-search-my-home-in-murder-investigation/517107/273 "2009-11-13T19:07:07Z")
Say what? Let’s go over this again. [QUOTE=aruqvan] [QUOTE=intention] In Saudi Arabia, it’s punishable by death to convert from Islam to Buddhism and speak out against Islam (apostasy). Do people who have committed that heinous crime deserve to be put to death? Or are they simply being put to death for breaking an immoral, unjust law? [/QUOTE] You knowingly break a law, you deserve to get punished. [/QUOTE] There’s a guy named Hadi Al Mutif who has spent 15 years on death row in Saudi Arabia for apostasy. He insulted the Prophet Muhammad. Pretty dumb of him, knowingly breaking the law like that. I’ll leave it to you to tell him that he deserves his punishment. Me, I think the judge who sentenced him to death for an imaginary crime deserves to be punished … In the US, there’s far too many imaginary crimes. I wouldn’t let the cops in my house on a bet. They are all too likely to find I’ve committed some imaginary offence. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-want-to-search-my-home-in-murder-investigation/517107/274 "2009-11-13T19:11:21Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > To the OP, please convince your parents to allow the cops in if they are considering otherwise. This isn’t some hypothetical on some internet message board, this is a real person who is missing. Help the police out. Don’t listen to those people who are proposing these absurd hypotheticals about losing your rights. Rights are not hypothetical when cops announce they are coming to your door to search. There is nothing LESS hypothetical possible. That is exactly the situation envisioned by the 4th and 5th Amendments (and whatever the Canadian equivalent is). If the kid is not at your house, tell the cops to get a warrant, and if they can, they certainly will. If the kid is at your house, do the same. There is nothing lost by either side in doing so. Heck, the whole thing is probably a fishing expedition so they can observe behavior, just when asking for a search. They don’t even care or the search. I wouldn’t even open the door for them, or if I did not realizing who was there, I’d keep it as short as humanly possible. “sorry can’t help you. bye. click.” You don’t even need to tell them to get a warrant, they know the drill already. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-want-to-search-my-home-in-murder-investigation/517107/275 "2009-11-13T19:13:24Z")
> [@Chopper9760](#): > > Since it’s voluntary we could probably drop the discussion of our rights, it’s nearly as immaterial as the morality b.s. being bandied about. It is not voluntary, it is coercive. Even if you let them in and they find the girl ad 15 more boarded up in the walls (hello Ohio!), any attorney worth his salt is going to go hard to toss the results of the search. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-want-to-search-my-home-in-murder-investigation/517107/276 "2009-11-13T19:14:29Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > If refusing a warrantless search causes me to be put on a list of suspects to a crime that the police have no other reason to suspect me of… This is very similar to invoking one’s Fifth Amendment rights (in the US). That is, a jury that hears a defendant plead the Fifth cannot use that as a sign of guilt. That is the whole point of these amendments. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-want-to-search-my-home-in-murder-investigation/517107/277 "2009-11-13T19:15:33Z")
> [@not\_alice](#): > > Heck, the whole thing is probably a fishing expedition so they can observe behavior, just when asking for a search. They don’t even care or the search. I wouldn’t even open the door for them, or if I did not realizing who was there, I’d keep it as short as humanly possible. “sorry can’t help you. bye. click.” You don’t even need to tell them to get a warrant, they know the drill already. My scenario: \ “Yes - oh, cops. Is this that door-to-door thing?” “Yes. Can we come in?” “No. I disapprove of fishing expeditions on principle. Is there anything else? No?” \ ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-want-to-search-my-home-in-murder-investigation/517107/278 "2009-11-13T19:18:13Z")
> [@Fetchund](#): > > What IS relevant is helping out if you have a chance - or next time, it may be YOU the cops are searching for, and running into brick walls of paranoid people. > > So, yeah - I’d let 'em in. Any time. And I hope that most of you don’t ever need the cops someday. So what do the 4th and 5th Amendments (Not anything new or radical really) mean to you? If I need a cop in my house, I will let him in. If he says he needs to be in my house, he needs a warrant. See the difference? ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-want-to-search-my-home-in-murder-investigation/517107/279 "2009-11-13T19:21:20Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I doubt you’d say you didn’t want to search the neighborhood if your own kid was missing. Then you’d be wrong. If the cops are so bereft of clues that they need to make an entire neighborhood decide to exercise their rights or not, then I would suggest they have better alternatives to narrowing down what happened to my kid than that. If not, then there are other ways to look for missing children than relying on cops, in fact better ways. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-want-to-search-my-home-in-murder-investigation/517107/280 "2009-11-13T19:25:00Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > T > You think the guy who has the kid’s dead body in his freezer is going to give the cops permission to come in? that is the point - it is meant to highlight those who would exercise their rights for further scrutiny, while those who would abrogate them - and I confess to being surprised how many dopers would - are rewarded by not being investigated further. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-want-to-search-my-home-in-murder-investigation/517107.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-want-to-search-my-home-in-murder-investigation/517107.md?page=15)