# Police warning each other about body cam recordings **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 13, 2017, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-warning-each-other-about-body-cam-recordings/791195 "2017-07-13T21:10:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-warning-each-other-about-body-cam-recordings/791195/101 "2017-07-16T18:09:54Z")
> [@Hocus\_Pocus](#): > > Also, remember what he was being arrested for. He was seen making a drug deal. He was then pursued by officers. What do you think he did with the drugs he had on him? The toxicology report indicated that he had opiates & marijuana in his system at the time of his death. Simple logic would indicate that he destroyed the evidence by ingesting it. That is not a logical conclusion. A drug dealer having opiates and marijuana in his system is not some shocking thing that requires us to assume he swallowed his stash. Also, ingesting raw marijuana does not generally bring on much mental effect at all - the psychoactive elements don’t enter the bloodstream. Thirdly, he was autopsied so they would have mentioned a bag of pills in his stomach, I would think. ---
**Author:** ![Hocus\_Pocus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/41988e/32.png) [@Hocus\_Pocus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hocus_Pocus)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-warning-each-other-about-body-cam-recordings/791195/102 "2017-07-16T18:14:53Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > That is not a logical conclusion. A drug dealer having opiates and marijuana in his system is not some shocking thing that requires us to assume he swallowed his stash. Also, ingesting raw marijuana does not generally bring on much mental effect at all. Thirdly, he was autopsied so they would have mentioned a bag of pills in his stomach, I would think. The autopsy made no mention of a bag nor the quantity (a failing by the ME, in my book). ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-warning-each-other-about-body-cam-recordings/791195/103 "2017-07-16T18:18:11Z")
And an indication that the levels were probably at what’s expected in a normal drug user. ---
**Author:** ![Hocus\_Pocus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/41988e/32.png) [@Hocus\_Pocus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hocus_Pocus)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-warning-each-other-about-body-cam-recordings/791195/104 "2017-07-16T18:34:16Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > And an indication that the levels were probably at what’s expected in a normal drug user. Assumes facts not in evidence. W/o a statement to the exact level it could be anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-warning-each-other-about-body-cam-recordings/791195/105 "2017-07-16T20:08:09Z")
> [@Hocus\_Pocus](#): > > …What do you think he did with the drugs he had on him? The toxicology report indicated that he had opiates & marijuana in his system at the time of his death. Simple logic would indicate that he destroyed the evidence by ingesting it… So, rather than face the hideous ordeal and penalties for drug possession and sale, he opted for suicide? “Simple”, yes. Logic? Rather a stretch. > [@](#): > > …And what can happen when one ingests a large quantity of opiates? It can result in a seizure… Oh? Really? It “can” result in a seizure? Often? Sometimes? Remotely possible? You have some expertise of your own to offer, or a citation? Because frankly, this is news to me. And are we talking about the lay down and twitch seizure, or flinging oneself bodily about into walls and floors? Because that is one _fuck_ of a seizure! > [@](#): > > …The other prisoner in the van initially said that he heard Gray banging around on the other side of the van, yet didn’t say it was the result of a “rough ride” as some called it… A man in police custody may have witnessed a police murder, yet, for some reason, was reluctant to say so? This would surprise you? > [@](#): > > …Actions have consequences, and Gray faced them. Why can’t you accept that, or are you against personal responsibility?.. Ah, the old absurd question ploy! Do you favor sensible restrictions on police behavior, or do you favor letting them kill anybody they feel like? _Please!_ > [@](#): > > …Lastly, this garbage about the police being so bad that blacks feel the need to warn their children about the police is exactly that - garbage… Oh, how I do wish that were so! Look, my son, the Err Apparent, is so white he burns from the little light bulb in the fridge. And I gave him The Talk. “Yes, sir, No, sir, whatever you say, Officer.” Are they lying, you think? That’s just something black folks tell white folks, it doesn’t really happen? _You_ wouldn’t? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-warning-each-other-about-body-cam-recordings/791195/106 "2017-07-16T20:16:03Z")
> [@Hocus\_Pocus](#): > > The autopsy made no mention of a bag nor the quantity (a failing by the ME, in my book). > [@Hocus\_Pocus](#): > > Assumes facts not in evidence. W/o a statement to the exact level it could be anywhere. QFT Maybe the bag was there, and the ME fucked up? Possible. Got anything beyond your baseless conjecture? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-warning-each-other-about-body-cam-recordings/791195/107 "2017-07-16T20:33:45Z")
> [@Hocus\_Pocus](#): > > He had been involved in 20 criminal cases with 5 outstanding, including a drug possession charge (remember what he was arrested for in this incident?). Sounds like a real altar boy. :rolleyes: What was he arrested for? [CBS](http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2016/06/23/timeline-freddie-grays-arrest-to-his-fatal-spinal-cord-injury/) indicates there was no reason. Wikipedia says he “[ran away](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Freddie_Gray#Arrest_and_death)” and was arrest for carrying a “switchblade” which was not in fact a switchblade and was completely legal. And the idea that someone deserves to die, or loses the presumption of innocence because they’ve previously been involved in criminal activity is _absurd_. > [@](#): > > The seat belt policy went into effect six days prior to this incident. Can you prove that this policy was made known to the officers at the time of this incident? What, you mean you need a _policy_ for ensuring that someone handcuffed in the back of a van needs to have something to keep him from bouncing around? Apparently yes. This objection is asinine. Similarly asinine: _the need for this policy_. > [@](#): > > Additionally, when suspects are violently combative the officers are no longer required to restrain the suspect, as entering the van would place the officers in danger. And you say this because…? “Gray was apprehended and taken into custody “without the use of force or incident”, according to Officer Garret Miller”, sez Wiki, so this comment has nothing to do with anything. But all of this is a fairly absurd distraction. They threw him in the back of the van, and by the end of the ride, due to their negligence or malice, he was dead. > [@](#): > > Also, remember what he was being arrested for. He was seen making a drug deal. I have _no idea_ where you got this from, because every source I’ve found indicates that it’s simply not true. He was _not_ seen making a drug deal. > [@](#): > > He was then pursued by officers. What do you think he did with the drugs he had on him? The toxicology report indicated that he had opiates & marijuana in his system at the time of his death. Simple logic would indicate that he destroyed the evidence by ingesting it. > > And what can happen when one ingests a large quantity of opiates? It can result in a seizure. The other prisoner in the van initially said that he heard Gray banging around on the other side of the van, yet didn’t say it was the result of a “rough ride” as some called it. Actions have consequences, and Gray faced them. Why can’t you accept that, or are you against personal responsibility? Missing from all of this: a single citation to back up your claims. The toxicology report cited that he had drugs in his system. There’s no indication of any of what your “simple logic” dictates, because it’s not simple or logical. You’d think a seizure would have turned up in the autopsy; [the only place it shows up in the report is as a hypothetical _consequence_ of the lethal injury](http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/freddie-gray/bal-read-the-freddie-gray-autopsy-report-text-story.html). And once again, _holy shit, take a step back and look what you’re doing_. This guy entered police custody and _died_. And you think that I should feel bad for the cops responsible for it. You think we should blame _him_ for dying. And to back up your claim, you are inventing a fanciful story wherein this guy swallowed a bag of drugs (I _guarantee_ that would have shown up on the coroner’s report), had a seizure, and this seizure caused him to break his neck. This man is dead because of the malice of negligence of these officers. They’re not gonna get an apology. Anyone else does this and they probably don’t get the charges dropped. > [@](#): > > Lastly, this garbage about the police being so bad that blacks feel the need to warn their children about the police is exactly that - garbage. So far this year 354 people in Chicago have been killed, and 1662 have been wounded by gunfire. Of the 354, police were involved in 8 of them, and the same for those shot & wounded. So using simple logic, tell me who the threat is to the black community? Firstly: [not garbage](http://gawker.com/what-black-parents-tell-their-sons-about-the-police-1624412625). At this point it’s pretty well-established that this is a broad thing, even among upper-middle-class African-Americans. It’s necessary because of black kids start thinking that the cops are their friends, their rude awakening will generally come in the form of handcuffs and the barrel of a gun _if they’re lucky_. Beyond that, do you understand the difference between “a desperate criminal might murder me” and “an officer of the law might murder me”? Because there are some _pretty substantial differences_ there in what that means for society. The former is a tragedy that means you should be careful to avoid dangerous, desperate, or evil people, and do what you can to ensure that things go well there. The latter is an indication that you cannot rely on law enforcement, you cannot call on law enforcement, and that any given interaction with law enforcement can very well lead to the end of your life. And these problems are interconnected as well. What happens when you can’t trust law enforcement to deal with things like gang violence? You take the law into your own hands. ---
**Author:** ![Hocus\_Pocus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/41988e/32.png) [@Hocus\_Pocus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hocus_Pocus)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-warning-each-other-about-body-cam-recordings/791195/108 "2017-07-16T20:45:06Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] So, rather than face the hideous ordeal and penalties for drug possession and sale, he opted for suicide? “Simple”, yes. Logic? Rather a stretch. [/quote] Yeah, it’s such a stretch that a legal site posted repercussions to such activity: [http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2014/11/what-can-happen-if-you-eat-evidence.html](http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2014/11/what-can-happen-if-you-eat-evidence.html) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-warning-each-other-about-body-cam-recordings/791195/109 "2017-07-16T20:59:43Z")
Confusing. A citation should support a point, otherwise, its just a reading assignment. I have little doubt that responsible lawyers would advise against swallowing a mass of drugs to escape legal consequences. What’s your point? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-warning-each-other-about-body-cam-recordings/791195/110 "2017-07-16T21:46:33Z")
> [@Hocus\_Pocus](#): > > Assumes facts not in evidence. Huh. I was getting the impression that you were totally cool with assumed facts not in evidence. Ok, let’s just say I was using simple logic. ---
**Author:** ![Hocus\_Pocus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/41988e/32.png) [@Hocus\_Pocus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hocus_Pocus)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-warning-each-other-about-body-cam-recordings/791195/111 "2017-07-16T22:08:20Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Confusing. A citation should support a point, otherwise, its just a reading assignment. I have little doubt that responsible lawyers would advise against swallowing a mass of drugs to escape legal consequences. What’s your point? You’re the one that posted that it’s a stretch to think that someone would take the potentially suicidal action of swallowing evidence. I posted that link to show that not only is it not a stretch, but it is quite common. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-warning-each-other-about-body-cam-recordings/791195/112 "2017-07-16T23:48:13Z")
Yeah, a bunch of attorneys sombrely advising about the legal implications of swallowing evidence, and the last thing they mention is “Oh, it might fucking kill you!” Lawyers! But the very fact that it was asked and answered means it is a “common” occurrence? A graceful leap of logic not everyone can make. ---
**Author:** ![Hocus\_Pocus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/41988e/32.png) [@Hocus\_Pocus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hocus_Pocus)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-warning-each-other-about-body-cam-recordings/791195/113 "2017-07-17T00:01:32Z")
> **[5.03\_Havis\_-\_Drug\_Deaths\_.pdf](https://www.hri.global/files/2011/08/08/5.03_Havis_-_Drug_Deaths_.pdf)** > > 191.35 KB > [@](#): > > Such practices are > common due to the low rates of detection and potentially > high-financial rewards for successful transportation. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-warning-each-other-about-body-cam-recordings/791195/114 "2017-07-17T00:08:05Z")
We spent $4 million on body cameras and they’re never turned on. Cops just shot a woman who had reported an assault and gosh, not one of them had their cameras on. :rolleyes: > **[Relatives, community demand answers in Minneapolis police shooting of...](https://www.twincities.com/2017/07/16/woman-dead-after-officer-involved-shooting-in-minneapolis/)** > > Family members, Mayor Betsy Hodges and other community members are looking for answers that can explain the fatal shooting of a woman by a Minneapolis police officer late Saturday. Because for some reason, they’re just never turning them on! [http://kstp.com/news/minneapolis-police-department-body-cam-video-use-low/4540868/](http://kstp.com/news/minneapolis-police-department-body-cam-video-use-low/4540868/) Minneapolis Police Body Cam Data for March 2017 Total number of officers working with body cameras Total hours worked in 911 capacity Body worn camera hours Precinct 1 79 11,576.5 439.48 Precinct 2 74 10,177 388.72 Precinct 3 94 13.454.75 506.55 Precinct 4 95 13,465.75 584.17 Precinct 5 71 10,112.8 513.03 City Hall 7 979.5 112.32 ---
**Author:** ![Hocus\_Pocus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/41988e/32.png) [@Hocus\_Pocus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hocus_Pocus)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-warning-each-other-about-body-cam-recordings/791195/115 "2017-07-17T00:35:07Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > We spent $4 million on body cameras and they’re never turned on. > > Cops just shot a woman who had reported an assault and gosh, not one of them had their cameras on. :rolleyes: > > [Relatives, community demand answers in Minneapolis police shooting of Australian woman – Twin Cities](http://www.twincities.com/2017/07/16/woman-dead-after-officer-involved-shooting-in-minneapolis/) And what evidence do you have that the shooting was unjustified? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-warning-each-other-about-body-cam-recordings/791195/116 "2017-07-17T00:39:50Z")
> [@Hocus\_Pocus](#): > > And what evidence do you have that the shooting was unjustified? Please tell me where in my post I stated that. However, the mayor has asked the BCA to investigate it. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-warning-each-other-about-body-cam-recordings/791195/117 "2017-07-17T01:16:21Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > There aren’t any 4th Amendment implications in employment condititioned on the wearing of a camera that I’m aware of. Don’t want to have to wear a camera, then quit. Do you understand how that is significantly different from your radical proposal that we “Make it mandatory for everyone to wear a body cam, not just the police. Have it stream live to centralized data locations where the video is scanned for 'unlawful (and ‘deviant’) behavior).”? You quote law like it matters, yet when I suggest a way to get high compliance with laws you seem to think law doesn’t matter enough to consider it. You also think that the 4th Amendment is important, yet it isn’t important enough to guarantee those rights to workers, who are people and need to work in order to survive. ---
**Author:** ![Hocus\_Pocus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/41988e/32.png) [@Hocus\_Pocus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hocus_Pocus)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-warning-each-other-about-body-cam-recordings/791195/118 "2017-07-17T02:15:06Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Please tell me where in my post I stated that. You didn’t. But it’s clear that your insinuation is that they didn’t have the cameras on b/c they were doing something wrong. > [@](#): > > However, the mayor has asked the BCA to investigate it. And what would happen to the mayor politically if the investigation wasn’t called for (justified or not)? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-warning-each-other-about-body-cam-recordings/791195/119 "2017-07-17T02:15:51Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > You quote law like it matters, yet when I suggest a way to get high compliance with laws you seem to think law doesn’t matter enough to consider it. > > You also think that the 4th Amendment is important, yet it isn’t important enough to guarantee those rights to workers, who are people and need to work in order to survive. If by now you don’t understand how the 4th Amendment is a bar against broad government searches of the citizenry’s private affairs, but not against employment conditioned on wearing a body camera, we’ve probably reached the limits of my ability to explain it to you further. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-warning-each-other-about-body-cam-recordings/791195/120 "2017-07-17T02:19:00Z")
> [@Hocus\_Pocus](#): > > You didn’t. But it’s clear that your insinuation is that they didn’t have the cameras on b/c they were doing something wrong. My insinuation? Be very careful of putting words in people’s mouths. But I will come out and say it. They were doing something wrong. > [@](#): > > And what would happen to the mayor politically if the investigation wasn’t called for (justified or not)? The mayor has had clashes with the police already over them not following direction or obeying laws. Nothing will happen to her politically over this. The BCA will investigate and determine what happened here. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-warning-each-other-about-body-cam-recordings/791195.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-warning-each-other-about-body-cam-recordings/791195.md?page=7)