# Policy on spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [April 8, 2014, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/policy-on-spoilers/685632 "2014-04-08T13:24:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/policy-on-spoilers/685632/21 "2014-04-09T20:04:43Z")
> [@armedmonkey](#): > > The novel _A Game of Thrones_ was published more than 20 years ago. > > Intentionally spoiling something is jerkish behavior, but the panic and fear that some posters feel about possibly learning decades old plot points before they show up in the TV adaptation is absurdly overboard. To be fair, the TV Show this season will be showing events in books 3 and 4, which were published in 2000 and 2005, so the content in question is somewhere between 9 and 14 years old, not 20. But even if we stipulate that it is in fact absurdly overboard to expect such content to be spoiler-free, it has been well established that there are many people (both on this board and in the world at large) who do desire such an experience. Even if we were to all agree that they are being ‘absurd’, it would still jerkish behavior to spoil them. The board rules do not forbid people being ‘absurd’; they do forbid being a jerk. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/policy-on-spoilers/685632/22 "2014-04-09T20:21:49Z")
My point is that the offense of spoiling should be a sliding scale. I did say intentionally spoiling something is jerkish behavior (perhaps you two missed that?), but there’s got to be a point in the age of a work where people chill the fuck out, lest we always walk around on eggshells in perpetual fear of accidentally telling someone that Romeo and Juliet die at the end. I’m sorry if I just spoiled the movie adaptation of that play for you. I’m not saying it should be OK to post _Game of Thrones_ spoilers because the books are old. What I am saying is that people need to calm down about the possibility of accidentally coming across one - because the books are old. To put it simply: Spoilers are bad. Losing your mind over the possibility of coming across a spoiler from an old work is also bad. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/policy-on-spoilers/685632/23 "2014-04-10T13:06:05Z")
> [@armedmonkey](#): > > I’m not saying it should be OK to post _Game of Thrones_ spoilers because the books are old. What I am saying is that people need to calm down about the possibility of accidentally coming across one - because the books are old. What about where the TV show diverges from the book. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/policy-on-spoilers/685632/24 "2014-04-10T14:23:33Z")
There’s always a difficulty with stuff that’s very old: the surprise twist in PSYCHO, or Rhett’s last line in GONE WITH THE WIND, or the secret of CITIZEN KANE’s “Rosebud,” or Hector dying at the end of the Iliad… The experience of encounter is different for someone who knows the surprise twist, compared to someone who doesn’t. And many people want the “fresh” experience of encountering the material without pre-conceptions, so they would like to avoid spoilers. There’s no way to demand that the universe in general comply with your desires, but these are Message Boards where we discuss lots of works and we should be able to be courteous to others’ desires. And at the same time, we should be able to talk about whatever we want. And these two goals can be in conflict. As **armedmonkey** said: altering the first-encounter experience for someone else (who doesn’t want that alteration) is discourteous, to say the least. Pretending that such altered first-experience is a major life-threatening disaster is … well, silly. We need to keep balance. On the “in advance” in the rules: they weren’t written as a legalistic code but as a general guideline. Anything “in advance” of my watching a show can be a spoiler, and it has nothin’ to do with air dates. I also remind y’all that we have many (many!) non-US posters who may not see such programs for months (and the reverse, often, for UK programmes coming to the US). So the idea that something was televised six months ago and therefore is “old” and needn’t be spoiler-protected is false. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/policy-on-spoilers/685632/25 "2014-04-10T14:42:43Z")
Based on what you just said - it will be near impossible to hve any discussion on any topic without fear of spoiling something for someone. Even citing the first words of a book - “In a hole there lived a hobbit…” - is spoileriffic to some. The guidelines should be pretty simple - and based on the OP of the thread if spoilers are allowed or not -“I just started watching Buffy - don’t spoil it, but I really like Willow!” you simply can’t discuss a book or movie - current or old - without discussing the plot points - and reading threadss that are nothing but spoiler boxes gets old fast. “anticipation” threads should be “known spoiler” free (or appropriately boxed) - threads about movies/books currently out and popular should be free to discuss without fear of spoilers - but clearly, if you have information about sequel/next episodes, etc - (Spock Lives Again!) - then you should put them in boxes. Spoilers of any sort should not be in titles or first paragraph of the OP. And if you don’t want something spoiled - the onus is truly on you to avoid threads that might spoil things for you - (what, they’re killing Archie?!?) ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/policy-on-spoilers/685632/26 "2014-04-10T14:56:40Z")
this > [@](#): > > threads about movies/books currently out and popular should be free to discuss without fear of spoilers Should read threads about movies/books currently out and popular should be free to discuss without fear of spoiling someone - ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/policy-on-spoilers/685632/27 "2014-04-10T15:28:05Z")
I just want to point out that in the How I Met Your Mother thread the ending of the final episode was spoilered at [almost the exact moment the show ended on the East Coast](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17246454&postcount=297), and two hours before it even began on the West Coast. And not one single person in the thread complained about it. I conclude that spoilers are not inherently evil and trying to figure out the apprpriate time where a plot point ceases to be a spoiler is damn near impossible. ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/policy-on-spoilers/685632/28 "2014-04-10T16:09:30Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > I just want to point out that in the How I Met Your Mother thread the ending of the final episode was spoilered at [almost the exact moment the show ended on the East Coast](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17246454&postcount=297), and two hours before it even began on the West Coast. > > And not one single person in the thread complained about it. Because it’s not Game of Thrones or another show with a huge following among geeks/needs. Seems like SF and fantasy related shows and movies are the subjects of most spoiler drama. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/policy-on-spoilers/685632/29 "2014-04-10T16:31:45Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > I conclude that spoilers are not inherently evil and trying to figure out the apprpriate time where a plot point ceases to be a spoiler is damn near impossible. It’s not rocket surgery. It’s not a spoiler _to you_ if you’ve seen it or know about it. But if it’s a plot point, then it’s definitionally a spoiler. Don’t put it in the title, and don’t blithely put it in text with no warning that you’re about to reveal something. Other places have different cultures where doing so isn’t jerkish behaviour, but it’s pretty standard here that you put basic and major plot points in a spoiler box or naked in thread with open spoilers or use whatever other bit of drapery is out there that’s understandable by a thirteen year old. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/policy-on-spoilers/685632/30 "2014-04-10T16:38:57Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > I just want to point out that in the How I Met Your Mother thread the ending of the final episode was spoilered at [almost the exact moment the show ended on the East Coast](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17246454&postcount=297), and two hours before it even began on the West Coast. > > And not one single person in the thread complained about it. Who in the world would be reading that thread at that point who hadn’t watched the episode already? There’s the difference - and it’s not complicated. No one, up to the point where it aired on television, knew what the ending would be. The GoT threads are different - even before an episode airs, there are people who know how it’s going to end. I find it so hard to believe that people cannot understand the concept of a gray area, and that general guidelines are good enough in place of hard and fast rules. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/policy-on-spoilers/685632/31 "2014-04-10T17:30:33Z")
Presumably those on the West Coast stay out of threads about shows that are tape-delayed for their time zone, at least until the show has aired in their area. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/policy-on-spoilers/685632/32 "2014-04-10T22:48:45Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Presumably those on the West Coast stay out of threads about shows that are tape-delayed for their time zone, at least until the show has aired in their area. So why don’t GoT fans stay out of threads until they’ve seen the episode? Seriously, maybe I’m dense, but what am I missing here? ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/policy-on-spoilers/685632/33 "2014-04-10T23:23:12Z")
> [@simster](#): > > Based on what you just said - it will be near impossible to hve any discussion on any topic without fear of spoiling something for someone. > > Even citing the first words of a book - “In a hole there lived a hobbit…” - is spoileriffic to some. Our focus has always been on UNEXPECTED plot twists or surprises. Your example is off: anyone reading THE HOBBIT will expect that there’s a hobbit in the story. I mean, c’mon, that’s the title. And it’s not a spoiler to say that there’s a dragon. The spoiler in CITIZEN KANE is the secret of “rosebud.” The fact that Kane dies is not a spoiler – that’s in the first minutes of the movie. That fact that the movie is about a reporter trying to learn the secret of Kane’s life is not a spoiler – that’s a plot summary. We have always interpreted spoilers to be related to unexpected plot twists. Plot summaries that don’t give away the unexpected plot twists are not a problem. Things that happens in the first chapter or first five minutes of a movie are not a problem. That a Disney animation ends with “happily ever after” is not a spoiler, it’s not unexpected. I hope that we are dealing with reasonable human beans on both sides. Those who don’t want a film/tv show/book/play/whatever to be spoiled need to take some responsibility for avoiding threads that have open spoilers. Those who want to discuss same should be courteous enough to use spoiler-tags in threads that are not spoiler-alerted in the title. It’s just common respect. In real life, you’d discuss an Agatha Christie book one way with someone else who’s read it, and another way (I hope) in discussion with someone who hasn’t read it yet. If you tell someone they ought to read Christie’s DEATH OF A BUTLER because the surprise ending that it’s the acupuncturist who killed all the servnts… well, I suspect they won’t read the book that you’ve just spoiled, and they probably won’t want to discuss murder mysteries with you in the future. The issue with GAME OF THRONES is that there are lots of surprise twists – there’s so many characters, and some of them meet surprising fates. And there’s a long time between the books and the TV series. In that way, it’s different from a one-hour TV show or a single movie. We had the same issues with Harry Potter series. We handled it pretty much the same, asking people to be respectful of each other. Simple. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/policy-on-spoilers/685632/34 "2014-04-10T23:30:01Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > So why don’t GoT fans stay out of threads until they’ve seen the episode? > > Seriously, maybe I’m dense, but what am I missing here? Hell, they don’t even stay out of threads clearly labeled as \*\*Spoilers! \*\*- and then they spend a dozen posts hijacking the thread to complain about the spoiler and hitting the “report this post” icon so hard and often their fingers bleed. Mind you, I have sympathies to the Mods. The 1st Season GoT thread was rife with book spoilers and cutesy/jerkish almost spoilers like “Wait until you see who dies next!” It was a shitstorm of the first degree. But honestly, it died down after that- unless someone offhand mentioned “the book” whereupon the Junior Mods came out in frothing masses, hijacking their own thread and bedeviling the Mods with dozens of reports. Mind you- I am not talking about a SPOILER from the book, oh no. Just the mention that the Source existed and perhaps differed from the TV show in some way. :rolleyes: So, based upon the 'squeaky wheel " rule, the Non-book GoT TV show fans got special rules. I disagree with the special rule, but sympathize with the staff for the problem. The special rule "_IF IT’S NOT ON SCREEN DURING THE SHOW, DO NOT POST IT IN THESE THREADS. For the show purists. This includes, but is not limited to, information from the books, TV guides, webzines, ONLINE previews, interviews, promotions, commercials and so on and forth."_ only seems to apply to GoT. To answer your question in another manner, they can’t just stay out of the threads until they have watched the TV show, as it’s always possible someone who reads books may slip in a spoiler from the books. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/policy-on-spoilers/685632/35 "2014-04-10T23:33:17Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > Our focus has always been on UNEXPECTED plot twists or surprises. > The issue with GAME OF THRONES is that there are lots of surprise twists – there’s so many characters, and some of them meet surprising fates. And there’s a long time between the books and the TV series. . But then tell me Dex. How does mentioning that a scene on the TV show was handled slightly differently in the book count as a “spoiler”? Nothing is “spoiled”, no plot twists revealed, no surprises. Yes, saying that XXXX happens in the next book is a spoiler, but something that has already been on screen? ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/policy-on-spoilers/685632/36 "2014-04-10T23:46:09Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > But then tell me Dex. How does mentioning that a scene on the TV show was handled slightly differently in the book count as a “spoiler”? Nothing is “spoiled”, no plot twists revealed, no surprises. Yes, saying that XXXX happens in the next book is a spoiler, but something that has already been on screen? Perhaps it’s context dependent. If Dumbo grabs a claw hammer and pummles his trainer to death in the book, but on the TV show he uses a mattock, saying “that’s now how it was done in the book” is probably not a spoiler. But if the show has him using the hammer to break a hole in the wall, saying the same thing would be tantamount to a spoiler. Note I haven’t read the book or seen the series, so I don’t know if the above applies. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2014, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/policy-on-spoilers/685632/37 "2014-04-11T00:13:34Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > > > Presumably those on the West Coast stay out of threads about shows that are tape-delayed for their time zone, at least until the show has aired in their area. > > So why don’t GoT fans stay out of threads until they’ve seen the episode? > > Seriously, maybe I’m dense, but what am I missing here? Maybe _I’m_ the dense one, but isn’t the issue not about spoilers from already-aired episodes, but spoilers from the _books_? ---
**Author:** ![jimbuff314](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c57346/32.png) [@jimbuff314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimbuff314)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2014, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/policy-on-spoilers/685632/38 "2014-04-11T00:38:16Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Maybe _I’m_ the dense one, but isn’t the issue not about spoilers from already-aired episodes, but spoilers from the _books_? From post # 24 above by **Dex** : > [@](#): > > On the “in advance” in the rules: they weren’t written as a legalistic code but as a general guideline. Anything “in advance” of my watching a show can be a spoiler, and it has nothin’ to do with air dates. > > I also remind y’all that we have many (many!) non-US posters who may not see such programs for months (and the reverse, often, for UK programmes coming to the US). So the idea that something was televised six months ago and therefore is “old” and needn’t be spoiler-protected is false. Not trying to be snarky or anything, it just seems to directly answer your question. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2014, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/policy-on-spoilers/685632/39 "2014-04-11T00:44:10Z")
Has _anyone_ complained about spoilers from already-aired episodes of Game of Thrones? Not as far as I know. Has anyone complained about spoilers from the Game of Thrones _books_? Yes, often, including me. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2014, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/policy-on-spoilers/685632/40 "2014-04-11T01:46:30Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > Our focus has always been on UNEXPECTED plot twists or surprises. Your example is off: anyone reading THE HOBBIT will expect that there’s a hobbit in the story. I mean, c’mon, that’s the title. And it’s not a spoiler to say that there’s a dragon. > > The spoiler in CITIZEN KANE is the secret of “rosebud.” The fact that Kane dies is not a spoiler – that’s in the first minutes of the movie. That fact that the movie is about a reporter trying to learn the secret of Kane’s life is not a spoiler – that’s a plot summary. > > We have always interpreted spoilers to be related to unexpected plot twists. Plot summaries that don’t give away the unexpected plot twists are not a problem. Things that happens in the first chapter or first five minutes of a movie are not a problem. That a Disney animation ends with “happily ever after” is not a spoiler, it’s not unexpected. > > I hope that we are dealing with reasonable human beans on both sides. Those who don’t want a film/tv show/book/play/whatever to be spoiled need to take some responsibility for avoiding threads that have open spoilers. Those who want to discuss same should be courteous enough to use spoiler-tags in threads that are not spoiler-alerted in the title. > > It’s just common respect. In real life, you’d discuss an Agatha Christie book one way with someone else who’s read it, and another way (I hope) in discussion with someone who hasn’t read it yet. If you tell someone they ought to read Christie’s DEATH OF A BUTLER because the surprise ending that it’s the acupuncturist who killed all the servnts… well, I suspect they won’t read the book that you’ve just spoiled, and they probably won’t want to discuss murder mysteries with you in the future. > > The issue with GAME OF THRONES is that there are lots of surprise twists – there’s so many characters, and some of them meet surprising fates. And there’s a long time between the books and the TV series. In that way, it’s different from a one-hour TV show or a single movie. We had the same issues with Harry Potter series. We handled it pretty much the same, asking people to be respectful of each other. Simple. You said - specifically - [QUOTE=C K Dexter Haven] As armedmonkey said: altering the first-encounter experience for someone else (who doesn’t want that alteration) is discourteous, to say the least. [/QUOTE] In which case - any discussion is considered a potential spoiler to somebody - this is what I was referring to in my response. Beyond that - while this post of yours is reasonable - think about it in practice - we don’t come to a forum to discuss the mundane points of the episodes/books or movies - its specifically the unexpected twists that further the discussions - and I personally enjoy hearing how things may have differed from the source material (but I do get that that can be a very grey area these days, given TWD, GoT, etc). Again - I say the “policy” should be to a) respect the OP - let the OP define for that thread whats germane or not b) OPs that are ripe for “spoilers” should be clear in the subject that it will be open/closed spoilers (or none at all) c) Subjects and First parts (mouseover space) of OPs should strive to avoid spoilers - d) People that don’t want to be spoiled should avoid threads that might spoil things for them. e) Posters that flagrantly ignore a-d should be noted and/or warned if they are becoming jerks about it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/policy-on-spoilers/685632.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/policy-on-spoilers/685632.md?page=3)