# Polish insult **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 24, 2009, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-insult/500802 "2009-06-24T04:51:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-insult/500802/201 "2009-07-22T19:56:34Z")
> [@White\_Eagle](#): > > However, it’s still hard for me to “imagine” the sort of substitution posited would actually have been made by Ferrell in the movie and I don’t share your hope that concerns about it would be dismissed so lightly by so many posters. [Sasha Baron Cohen performing “Throw the Jew Down the Well” in the hit movie, _Borat_.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vb3IMTJjzfo) There was a thread about this specific scene when the movie came out, although I can’t find it now to link to. The general opinion of the posters was favorable to Cohen, although not so much to the audience. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-insult/500802/202 "2009-07-22T20:01:45Z")
> [@White\_Eagle](#): > > Hear, hear. > The recent use of “Polish jokes” in a public presentation by a US Senator, and as part of a classical music tour by a famous conductor, and in a wide-distribution Hollywood movie by a fool may not make for a conspiracy and may not even mean ethnic slurs are coming back in vogue, but I agree it’s something to watch out for. The problem is, you’re making it impossible to do so, by automatically calling out any mention of these sorts of stereotypes as bigoted, without any regard to the context in which they’re presented. You are, to draw a broad example, unable to distinguish between _Triumph of the Will_ and _The Producers_. If you cannot distinguish between attempts to re-enforce these stereotypes, and attempts to explode them, you ensure that only those who want to re-enforce the stereotypes will comment on them, because they already don’t care if they piss you off. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-insult/500802/203 "2009-07-22T20:36:24Z")
> [@White\_Eagle](#): > > I already allowed that Shot From Guns probably wasn’t accusing me of being part of a conspiracy for other reasons but I like your additional consideration, cleverly put. Still no evidence being brought to bear to demonstrate the assertion that I subscribe to any conspiracy theory… I’m referring to **US News Reviews** ’s assertion of some great grand conspiracy of Hollywood and other media to make everyone think that people with Polish ancestry are morons. Since then, you’ve seemed somewhat more sane–not making claims that people who are identified as Polish are more discriminated against in the U.S. than Blacks, for example. If you like, I’ll revise my earlier estimation of you from “batshit insane conspiracy theorist” to “overly sensitive but well-intentioned person with no sense of humor.” ---
**Author:** ![mobo85](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mobo85](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mobo85)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-insult/500802/204 "2009-07-22T20:45:27Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > [Sasha Baron Cohen performing “Throw the Jew Down the Well” in the hit movie, _Borat_.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vb3IMTJjzfo) This comes not from _Borat_ but from _Da Ali G Show_, in which the character of Borat originated. Keep in mind Cohen himself is Jewish. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-insult/500802/205 "2009-07-22T21:43:23Z")
> [@White\_Eagle](#): > > However, it’s still hard for me to “imagine” the sort of substitution posited would actually have been made by Ferrell in the movie and I don’t share your hope that concerns about it would be dismissed so lightly by so many posters. Have you watched South Park? Cartman says far, far worse things about Jews in every episode but no one cares because it’s clear that the Cartman character is a generally nasty person. There are no Polish jokes told in the mainstream media that approach the vitriol of what Cartman says on a regular basis. Or, frankly, what they say about Canadians. People don’t protest this (that I know of) because there’s no need. It’s abundantly clear that the character saying these things isn’t to be taken seriously. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-insult/500802/206 "2009-07-22T22:18:45Z")
> [@mobo85](#): > > This comes not from _Borat_ but from _Da Ali G Show_, in which the character of Borat originated. Keep in mind Cohen himself is Jewish. Wasn’t it in the movie, too? ---
**Author:** ![mobo85](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mobo85](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mobo85)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-insult/500802/207 "2009-07-22T22:27:33Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Wasn’t it in the movie, too? Although the song _Throw the Jew Down the Well_ appears on the film’s soundtrack album, Borat does not actually sing it in the film- its origins are from a Borat sketch on _Da Ali G Show_. ---
**Author:** ![White\_Eagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ebca7d/32.png) [@White\_Eagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/White_Eagle)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-insult/500802/208 "2009-07-23T18:38:04Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > The problem is, you’re making it impossible to do so, by automatically calling out any mention of these sorts of stereotypes as bigoted, without any regard to the context in which they’re presented. I’m not among those who automatically approach these questions, like folks who mindlessly accept something is a “joke” because the teller says it was. I examine attempts at ethnic humor individually in context and only wish that others would, too. Sometimes I find it useful to use substitution for a sniff test to help me decide, depending on the ethnicity/religion/race being targeted. I thought you did the same thing to great effect earlier and commended your reasoning even if I disagreed with your conclusion. Yes, context matters. That is why I found it strange that several apologists here went back to the schoolyard for their “evidence” and seemed to equate that with media/public forum remarks. South Park is somewhere between, I guess. My suggestion from the beginning was that people apply the sniff test individually to decide for themselves whether a particular instance was objectionable or not. Many people have been so manipulated by a lifetime of hearing that “Polish jokes” are always acceptable that they look at them uncritically no matter the content or context. Others illogically conclude that because some people who identify themselves as having a minority background say they are not offended, therefore nobody is offended or at least nobody should be offended. It’s good enough for me when someone actually thinks about it, as several posters to this forum have. ---
**Author:** ![White\_Eagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ebca7d/32.png) [@White\_Eagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/White_Eagle)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-insult/500802/209 "2009-07-23T18:41:02Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > If you like, I’ll revise my earlier estimation of you from “batshit insane conspiracy theorist” to “overly sensitive but well-intentioned person with no sense of humor.” I accept your apology. Worrying about your opinion of me keeps me awake at night, and “overly sensitive but well-intentioned person with no sense of humor” will help me sleep. And thank you for the bonus humor lesson. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-insult/500802/210 "2009-07-23T19:28:34Z")
> [@White\_Eagle](#): > > Worrying about your opinion of me keeps me awake at night, and “overly sensitive but well-intentioned person with no sense of humor” will help me sleep. > And thank you for the bonus humor lesson. It’s so nice when people actually acknowledge that I’m the center of the universe, thank you. And you’re welcome–any time you’d like me to tell you what is and isn’t funny, just give a holler. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-insult/500802.md?page=10)