# Polish insult **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 24, 2009, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-insult/500802 "2009-06-24T04:51:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![US\_News\_Review](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@US\_News\_Review](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/US_News_Review)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-insult/500802/121 "2009-07-16T19:48:51Z")
> [@US News Review](#): > > Anti-Polish prejudice today is a lot more subtle then decades ago when it was full blown in the mainstream. > [@Marley23](#): > > In other words, it doesn’t exist. Which also explains why you could only find two examples from the last quarter century or so - and you misunderstood at least one of them. LOL Yeah sure. > **[A History of the Polish Americans](https://books.google.com/books?id=_YIlKNT2F7MC&pg=PA112&dq=%22polish+joke%22+%22johnny+carson%22&lr=&as_brr=0)** > > In the last, rootless decade families, neighborhoods, and communities have disintegrated in the face of gripping social, economic, and technological changes. This process has had mixed results. On the positive side, it has produced a mobile,... ---
**Author:** ![US\_News\_Review](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@US\_News\_Review](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/US_News_Review)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-insult/500802/122 "2009-07-16T19:50:30Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Again, read the registration agreement. Ethnic slurs are not allowed. Obvious jokes usually are. You responded to the “ethnic slurs” (jokes) by insulting other posters, which is not allowed. > > I think you’ve made that claim enough times in this thread already. In general, criticizing another poster’s arguments is allowed and insulting the person who makes the argument is not. OK Duely noted. ---
**Author:** ![filling\_pages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9bd4f/32.png) [@filling\_pages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filling_pages)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-insult/500802/123 "2009-07-16T19:53:10Z")
You’re not doing your argument any good when you fail to realize that 1980 was more than a quarter century ago. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-insult/500802/124 "2009-07-16T19:54:38Z")
> [@US\_News\_Review](#): > > LOL Yeah sure. THAT won me over. Your link contains only one actual Polish joke, from Ronald Reagan in 1980, and not the many comedians you and the author allege were anti-Polish bigot. I agree that the joke (while mild) would generate a lot of controversy if it happened today. Then again, later on it shows Reagan praising Pope John Paul II enthusiastically, so perhaps he didn’t hate Polish people. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-insult/500802/125 "2009-07-16T19:54:54Z")
> [@US\_News\_Review](#): > > LOL Yeah sure. > > [A History of the Polish Americans - Google Books](http://books.google.com/books?id=_YIlKNT2F7MC&pg=PA112&dq=%22polish+joke%22+%22johnny+carson%22&lr=&as_brr=0) Quarter century. As in last 25 years. That’s 1984 to today. The examples you cite are from the 60s and 70s. Get over yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-insult/500802/126 "2009-07-16T19:57:40Z")
> [@US\_News\_Review](#): > > LOL Yeah sure. > > [A History of the Polish Americans - Google Books](http://books.google.com/books?id=_YIlKNT2F7MC&pg=PA112&dq=%22polish+joke%22+%22johnny+carson%22&lr=&as_brr=0) Can you supply a list of people who aren’t mostly dead? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-insult/500802/127 "2009-07-16T20:11:19Z")
> [@US\_News\_Review](#): > > My questioning has been along the lines of the impact of all this Anti-Polish \*\*propaganda \*\*on the American people and the residual Anti-Polish bias today. You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. - - Inigo Montoya ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-insult/500802/128 "2009-07-16T20:12:53Z")
> [@US\_News\_Review](#): > > In light of that, I submit to you that if you were to go to people you meet across the country and compare Polish people to other ethnic groups, especially European ethnic groups, the Poles would come in last. > If you were to list 10 European ethnic groups with the Polish people and have people rank them as far as their positive attributes, the Polish people would come in last. That’s a direct result of the decades of Polish bashing coming from the Un-American Polish-haters in the media. So, basically, you’re citing made-up statistics that you think would be recorded, without actually testing anything. I submit to you that if I were to go to people on this message board, 90% of them would agree that you owe me a pony. So where’s my pony? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-insult/500802/129 "2009-07-16T20:14:51Z")
Just for laughs, let’s look at the cited list of Pole-bigots: Dan Rowan: Born 1922, now dead Dick Martin: Born 1922, now dead Frank Sinatra: Born 1915, now dead Phyllis Diller: Born 1917, alive Morey Amsterdam: Born 1908, now dead Dean Martin: Born 1917, now dead Joan Rivers: Born 1933, alive Johnny Carson: Born 1925, now dead Steve Allen: Born 1921, now dead Don Rickles: Born 1926, alive Carol Burnett: Born 1933, alive So, I figure the average age of these people (counting the dead ones as still alive, since US News Review seems to assume they still have cultural influence) is 87. Gosh. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-insult/500802/130 "2009-07-16T20:28:48Z")
> [@US\_News\_Review](#): > > I have been backing up everything I’m saying giving examples. > > The internet/youtube are great tools but they don’t cover every bit of information as far as every TV show sound bite there has ever been. > > The things such as Joan Rivers on NBC-TV calling Polish mothers prostitutes, Johnny Carson mocking Polish people who died on an air plane and MANY OTHER deragatory things that have been said have been documented in Polish American newspapers as they happened. No, you’re not backing it up by telling us to go and do our own research, and by posting links to some of the information, but not others. > [@gonzomax](#): > > Why do so many Pollock names end in ski? > Because their ancestors did not know how to spell tobaggon. > They have always been big in Detroit. I find it hilarious that you misspelled toboggan in that joke. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-insult/500802/131 "2009-07-16T20:30:50Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > I find it hilarious that you misspelled toboggan in that joke. I assumed it was part of the joke. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-insult/500802/132 "2009-07-16T20:36:06Z")
> [@US\_News\_Review](#): > > In light of that, I submit to you that if you were to go to people you meet across the country and compare Polish people to other ethnic groups, especially European ethnic groups, the Poles would come in last. I sincerely, sincerely doubt it. I think there’s more actual hatred and negative stereotypes of, say, Mexicans and Puerto Ricans than us Poles/Polish-Americans. Or how about pretty much any Middle Eastern or Arab ethnicity? Really, nobody gives a shit about the Poles. We’re not some sort of oppressed minority in America. So who are these TV/Hollywood media systematically reinforcing negative stereotypes of the Poles? Who is pulling the strings? Why? Is this a thinly veiled reference to Jews? Or do you really think Nazis/Germans are running Hollywood? What is it? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-insult/500802/133 "2009-07-16T20:38:32Z")
> [@US\_News\_Review](#): > > So its OK to make ethnic slurs on this forum? which is what I was responding to. Strictly speaking, none of the jokes posted in this thread have been aimed at Polish people as an ethnicity. They appear to be so on the surface, but a fairly simple examination of the subtext and, especially, context will make it clear who the real butt of them is. ---
**Author:** ![US\_News\_Review](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@US\_News\_Review](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/US_News_Review)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-insult/500802/134 "2009-07-16T21:06:39Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > THAT won me over. > > Your link contains only one actual Polish joke, from Ronald Reagan in 1980, and not the many comedians you and the author allege were anti-Polish bigot. I agree that the joke (while mild) would generate a lot of controversy if it happened today. Then again, later on it shows Reagan praising Pope John Paul II enthusiastically, so perhaps he didn’t hate Polish people. I never said Ronald Reagan hated Polish people. Ronald Reagan turned out to be a good man in my opinion. That article just showed what happened to even good people when they get caught up in the Anti-Polish media bias of the 70’s and 80’s when he made his comment about Poles. A good example of how even decent people can get caught up in negative media propaganda about an ethnic group. That’s an example of the POWER of mass media on people, especially the TV/Hollywood media of that time. ---
**Author:** ![US\_News\_Review](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@US\_News\_Review](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/US_News_Review)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-insult/500802/135 "2009-07-16T21:13:41Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I sincerely, sincerely doubt it. I think there’s more actual hatred and negative stereotypes of, say, Mexicans and Puerto Ricans than us Poles/Polish-Americans. Or how about pretty much any Middle Eastern or Arab ethnicity? Really, nobody gives a shit about the Poles. We’re not some sort of oppressed minority in America. > > So who are these TV/Hollywood media systematically reinforcing negative stereotypes of the Poles? Who is pulling the strings? Why? Is this a thinly veiled reference to Jews? Or do you really think Nazis/Germans are running Hollywood? What is it? Why would you bring up the Jews? I already explained Hollywood and how they ironically used propaganda similar to Nazi Germany about Polish people. Origin of the Polish joke/anti-Polish bigotry [http://www.polamjournal.com/Library/The\_Origin\_of\_the\_Polish\_Joke/the\_origin\_of\_the\_polish\_joke.html](http://www.polamjournal.com/Library/The_Origin_of_the_Polish_Joke/the_origin_of_the_polish_joke.html) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-insult/500802/136 "2009-07-16T21:21:14Z")
> [@US\_News\_Review](#): > > I never said Ronald Reagan hated Polish people. The book did not substantiate any other hateful Polish jokes by actual comedians, so that was all I had to work with. > [@](#): > > That article just showed what happened to even good people when they get caught up in the Anti-Polish media bias of the 70’s and 80’s when he made his comment about Poles. Reagan was around 69 years old at the time he made the remark, so I doubt his attitudes were shaped by the “Anti-Polish media bias of the 70’s and 80’s.” ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-insult/500802/137 "2009-07-16T21:25:22Z")
> [@US\_News\_Review](#): > > I don’t believe the American people are anti-Polish. I am Pro-American and I love America. I feel that when you talk to most Americans one on one they are generally fair minded and decent people. Although I am proud of my Polish ancestry I am proud of being AN American FIRST. My loyalty will always be to America FIRST. > > All of the Anti-Polish propaganda that I talked about above did NOT come from the American people. > > My criticisms were never about the American people but for those in the TV/Hollywood media who unfairly pushed racist stereotypes against Polish people over the decades, because of some kind of twisted anti-Polish prejudice of theirs. Uh … this TV/Hollywood media you keep referring to? There’s no such entity - no single unified corporation, no figurehead. No one is in charge of this nebulous collection of diverse agents, film crews, directors, writers, etc. Also, the individuals who work as agents, film crews, directors, writers, etc. and make up “TV/Hollywood media” are for the most part AMERICANS. So this sentence (“All of the Anti-Polish propaganda that I talked about above did NOT come from the American people.”) makes no sense to me. > [@US\_News\_Review](#): > > In my opinion, these Anti-Polish bigots in the media are NOT real Americans, since Americans in general have a sense of fair play and are not bigots which aren’t qualities these TV/media types bashing Poles have. I seem to recall the Bush administration using this same type of thinking to justify things like the Patriot Act, illegal wiretapping, etc. “Anyone who opposes these measures isn’t a REAL American anyway, so screw 'em.” > [@US\_News\_Review](#): > > [A History of the Polish Americans - Google Books](http://books.google.com/books?id=_YIlKNT2F7MC&pg=PA112&dq=%22polish+joke%22+%22johnny+carson%22&lr=&as_brr=0) > > I recognize that this type of Polish-bashing that was rampant decades ago when the mass media was going crazy knocking Poles, does not exist today…at least nowhere as intense as decades ago. So … why bring it up? > [@US\_News\_Review](#): > > My questioning has been along the lines of the impact of all this Anti-Polish propaganda on the American people and the residual Anti-Polish bias today. Although we are all Americans, for some reason there is always this emphasis on everyone’s race and ethnic background in the US. > > We’re always hearing from the media about “The first Black NFL Football coach”, “The first Latina nominee Supreme Court Justice”, Irish day parade, Italian day parade, etc etc. > > Since there is all this fixation on everyone’s race and ethnicity Ah. At last. NOW we’re getting somewhere, although at this point the OP has been so thoroughly derailed I think it could merit opening a separate thread: “Americans and their fixation on race and ethnicity - the 1st black this, the 1st Latina that, etc.” You have an actual, real issue there. Start there. > [@US\_News\_Review](#): > > it just makes makes me conscious of my Polish ethnicity and the need to defend it since at some level, people are judging you on your ethnicity. See, to me, this sounds like YOU are the center of the problem. YOU find all this “anti-Polish propaganda” all around you, and YOU are the one feeling defensive. From here, this smacks of YOU being paranoid. It really does. Maybe you don’t think you’re paranoid, but please understand that to the rest of this board, you sound like you are, based on what you’re posted here. > [@US\_News\_Review](#): > > And sad to say over the decades the Anti-Polish bigots in the media have fed the American people a ton of Anti-Polish propaganda which I’m merely speaking out against. > > Anti-Polish prejudice today is a lot more subtle then decades ago when it was full blown in the mainstream. In light of that, I submit to you that if you were to go to people you meet across the country and compare Polish people to other ethnic groups, especially European ethnic groups, the Poles would come in last. > If you were to list 10 European ethnic groups with the Polish people and have people rank them as far as their positive attributes, the Polish people would come in last. That’s a direct result of the decades of Polish bashing coming from the Un-American Polish-haters in the media. “Compare Polish people to other ethnic groups” how, exactly? Also, you’re the only one ranking anyone here. No one ever said, “There’s this study where a bunch of people listed Poles dead last in X, Y, and Z attributes.” Instead, YOU’RE the one ranking people, and YOU’RE the one putting Poles dead last. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-insult/500802/138 "2009-07-16T22:23:30Z")
> [@US\_News\_Review](#): > > Why would you bring up the Jews? Because TV/Hollywood is often associated with them, and I was curious whether this was the angle you were coming from, that’s all. ---
**Author:** ![White\_Eagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ebca7d/32.png) [@White\_Eagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/White_Eagle)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-insult/500802/139 "2009-07-17T01:04:00Z")
I’ve just skimmed most of the comments in this forum, and it seems to me that a lot of them (including some Moderator comments) are confused because when writers see the word “joke” they figure it means something is supposed to be funny. When you recognize that “Polish joke” is a euphemism for “ethnic slur” it takes on a different flavor. A useful test to see whether a “Polish joke” is funny or a slur is to substitute another ethnicity. Because Jews have been particularly articulate and successful in sensitizing the wider community about antisemitism, substituting “Jew” in any ethnic/racial/religious joke is usually a good test. But do this silently rather than allowing anyone to hear you, or you will properly be denounced as a bigot – just as you should be for saying the same thing about Polish people. Using the test, try this out on your ear: “Forget the Jews, it’s the tyrannosaurs that are the real dummies.” Or, to really gauge the appropriateness, substitute an unfair stereotype equivalent to the unfair stereotype of “dumb Polack” (which is an insulting slur in itself equivalent to the demeaning “wop” or “paki” or “kike”, etc., and something that has been used several times in this forum with different spellings but without Moderator comment that I am aware of). “Forget the Jews, it’s the triceratops that are the real swindlers.” Or, substitute any other ethnic/religious/racial stereotype that you recognize as abhorrent and see if it still sounds like a “joke”. Do the same with the other “jokes” that have been posted in this forum, with stated Moderator endorsement, and see if they still sound funny to you or if they sound like slurs. If Ferrell’s character had made the same sort of bigoted remark using another ethnicity (or religion, or race), the same points could be made as we have seen on this forum, that the remark shows the problem is with Ferrell (or his character) rather than the targeted minority. But I hope that posters would denounce it rather than telling Jews or African Americans or Mexicans that they should “lighten up” about being the butt of “jokes” about their stereotypes. My apologies for quoting other unfair stereotypes to make the point. Any decent person should be disgusted by them, as I hope you were. Any decent person should be disgusted by the kind of “joke” used in Ferrell’s “family comedy,” too. ---
**Author:** ![US\_News\_Review](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@US\_News\_Review](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/US_News_Review)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-insult/500802/140 "2009-07-17T01:23:41Z")
> [@White\_Eagle](#): > > I’ve just skimmed most of the comments in this forum, and it seems to me that a lot of them (including some Moderator comments) are confused because when writers see the word “joke” they figure it means something is supposed to be funny. When you recognize that “Polish joke” is a euphemism for “ethnic slur” it takes on a different flavor. > A useful test to see whether a “Polish joke” is funny or a slur is to substitute another ethnicity. Because Jews have been particularly articulate and successful in sensitizing the wider community about antisemitism, substituting “Jew” in any ethnic/racial/religious joke is usually a good test. But do this silently rather than allowing anyone to hear you, or you will properly be denounced as a bigot – just as you should be for saying the same thing about Polish people. > Using the test, try this out on your ear: > “Forget the Jews, it’s the tyrannosaurs that are the real dummies.” > Or, to really gauge the appropriateness, substitute an unfair stereotype equivalent to the unfair stereotype of “dumb Polack” (which is an insulting slur in itself equivalent to the demeaning “wop” or “paki” or “kike”, etc., and something that has been used several times in this forum with different spellings but without Moderator comment that I am aware of). > “Forget the Jews, it’s the triceratops that are the real swindlers.” > Or, substitute any other ethnic/religious/racial stereotype that you recognize as abhorrent and see if it still sounds like a “joke”. > Do the same with the other “jokes” that have been posted in this forum, with stated Moderator endorsement, and see if they still sound funny to you or if they sound like slurs. > If Ferrell’s character had made the same sort of bigoted remark using another ethnicity (or religion, or race), the same points could be made as we have seen on this forum, that the remark shows the problem is with Ferrell (or his character) rather than the targeted minority. But I hope that posters would denounce it rather than telling Jews or African Americans or Mexicans that they should “lighten up” about being the butt of “jokes” about their stereotypes. > My apologies for quoting other unfair stereotypes to make the point. Any decent person should be disgusted by them, as I hope you were. Any decent person should be disgusted by the kind of “joke” used in Ferrell’s “family comedy,” too. BINGO! Excellent point. Yes Will Ferrell’s character may look like a fool for saying this comment but nevertheless his premise that Poles have inferior intelligence is put out there as well. About half the audience at least, especially a young audience might not get it that Ferrell is foolish for what he insinuates about Polish people. I really wonder what would happen if Will Ferrell stupidly made a reference to an anti-Black stereotype and said “Forget the Blacks being vicious animals” its those tyranosaurs that are the real vicious animals. And then after the movie said he would be “honored it there was a backlash from the Black community” Or if Will Ferrell’s character stupidly used an anti-semitic stereotype common in Nazi Germany, and said “forget the Jews being rats” its those Tryanosaurs that are the rats. Then Will Ferrell afterwards said "he would be honored if there was a backlash from the Jewish commuity. There would be a thunderous outcry from the media if Will Ferrell made those comments. Such double standards. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-insult/500802.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-insult/500802.md?page=8)